peppers
5 Cubic Foot
Hello I am a new member as i just picked up a super clean 1933 GE CA-2-A16 Monitor Top!
Posts: 56
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Post by peppers on Apr 25, 2021 21:24:39 GMT
Update...Ok so i may be back to square one. I pulled out the control to take it apart and see why the overload was stuck. I read coldspaces thread on it and looked at all the pics. I noticed that when i turned it on and off the overload flag kept moving in and out when it shouldn't. I sent two videos off to Turbo and he noticed that the ratchet wheel at the bottom was slipping when i turned it on and off. See links below to all videos. I didn't really know what i did but i put a screwdriver down in there against the brass bar and it rest the overload and it seemed worked fine. Next I put the control back into the unit and began to get ready for start up and bleed out. Prior to all of this i did what Turbo suggested and opened up the bleed port full bore and let out all of the NCG's until the air slowed down and almost stopped. There were still some bubbles coming up through the oil but i wanted to be sure not to suck in any air and oil so i figured i could let the rest out when its running. I had the hot water trays ready and turned it on. It fired right up and the watts were at staying at about 280 ( Was really hoping they would be lower since i let all the gasses out) for the first 1.5 minutes the compressor dome was warming up, the condenser was uniform at about 68 degrees and i started the bleed process 3 minutes open with one min closed. I did this for two rounds, the bottom of the evaporator was 59 or 60 degrees and it was about 65 in my shop so it was starting to cool and it dropped 5 degrees after the 8 minutes. The watts were up to about 350 to 400 so i shut it off, dome temp was 88 degrees. I let it cool for about 10 minutes and turned it on again and this time the watts were right up to about 400. it ran for 3.5 minutes then shut off. I did notice that when i accidently bumped into the twist plug on the back the watts jumped to 600 then 1000 for a brief couple of seconds then back down to 400-450 range. I think the connection is not great but wondering if this may be contributing to the high wattage in general? It shut off about 20 seconds after i bumped the cord... the dome temp was 95 at that point. So my question is if i let out the majority of NCG's prior to a formal bleed why are the watts still so high and it is shutting down? Do i need to take some readings on the compressor, honestly i don't really understand all the motor winding talk when i read the threads but maybe the compressor is an issue? went back out this morning to see if the reset flag is showing since it tripped last night on the second run and it was about half way showing in the window. The unit did turn on and the watts were at about 250. I shut it off but my suspicion is that will eventually trip the overload again i will have to remove the control again to troubleshoot it. I don't really think i have solved the overload reset issue so looking for some guidance there as well on a more permanent fix. www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSRmWsX9M_k Control overload not reset www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyw4_qN4vxU Control reset www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcrmVl2dGLQ&t=3s First start up and bleed www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzrarvULxAw&t=11s Second start up and then shutdown Dean, sometimes the CA compressors can suffer some degree of mechanical damage from NCG buildup over the years. It seems that they sometimes become tight and try to seize up when warm; due to an abnormal wear pattern or some type of buildup on the moving parts. I've found it to be about a 50/50 shot with them surviving this condition. If they do survive it, the key to making that happen is to release the heavy extreme NCG buildup (which you have done it seems); and then keep trying and keep running it; but let it cool off between runs if it stalls. If it is going to survive, it will eventually establish a stable wear pattern and stop trying to seize up when it gets hot. The motors in these don't have a large amount of power; and it only takes a little extra drag to slow the motor down. These were supposedly good for 90 to 130V supply when everything was new and in good condition. Of course, the motor will be able to carry more load before losing speed and bogging down, when the voltage is higher. If you have a variac, you can use that to provide a solid 130V while the unit is running. This will help the motor to stay running and not lose speed. Once it loses speed to a certain point, the start-relay kicks in again and everything trips off. Sometimes when this is happening, I have found it helpful to bleed more aggressively when I notice the machine sounding like it is about to bog down. This may be at the cost of some refrigerant but it seems to have saved a few which would not continue running no matter what; at other times. Thanks David, I really want to save this beauty if i can. Its odd because there are still bubbles and i did let out as much as i thought i should until i caught a whiff of the methel. I will open it up again and see if more comes out. I do not have or know what a variac is? not sure you listened to the sound of it in any of the videos but i cant tell if it is struggling or not. It all sounded pretty consistent when running but i am no expert since this one has only ran for short periods of time. I will keep trying. Have you ever opened these up to fix what ever could be wrong and been able to seal back up?
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peppers
5 Cubic Foot
Hello I am a new member as i just picked up a super clean 1933 GE CA-2-A16 Monitor Top!
Posts: 56
|
Post by peppers on Apr 26, 2021 3:06:18 GMT
I had another thought after I watched Turbo's video about re-wiring the light socket on the ck. When I run this machine I do not hear any waterfall or fluid moving down in the evaporator... Today I fired it up again and it ran for the longest it has ever run just over 11 min. it stayed around 300 watts for the first 5 minutes or so then up around 330 watts for another few min then up to 350. At 8 1/2 min in it was up to 350 watts then to 400-450 from 9 min on until it suddenly jumped to 600 then 1300 then 1000 and it shut down. The sound of the compressor also got significant louder almost like it was jump started or had a second gear. I am guessing because of the high watts. I did two more bleeds in but the evaporator did not get cold at all, the dome was 95 degrees, condenser was around 76top to 73 at bottom and float was 71. My shop was much warmer today about 70 in there. With it running that long surely it should have gotten cold so maybe there is not enough Methly Formate in the system, cold that be contributing to the high temps too?
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Post by turbokinetic on Apr 26, 2021 12:44:36 GMT
I had another thought after I watched Turbo's video about re-wiring the light socket on the ck. When I run this machine I do not hear any waterfall or fluid moving down in the evaporator... Today I fired it up again and it ran for the longest it has ever run just over 11 min. it stayed around 300 watts for the first 5 minutes or so then up around 330 watts for another few min then up to 350. At 8 1/2 min in it was up to 350 watts then to 400-450 from 9 min on until it suddenly jumped to 600 then 1300 then 1000 and it shut down. The sound of the compressor also got significant louder almost like it was jump started or had a second gear. I am guessing because of the high watts. I did two more bleeds in but the evaporator did not get cold at all, the dome was 95 degrees, condenser was around 76top to 73 at bottom and float was 71. My shop was much warmer today about 70 in there. With it running that long surely it should have gotten cold so maybe there is not enough Methly Formate in the system, cold that be contributing to the high temps too? Dean, is there any chance this unit has a broken solder joint or big air leak on the evaporator? The reason the sound changed at the end before it tripped is because the current demand got so high that the start relay kicked back in. For the dome to be much hotter than the condenser; that means there is no flow going through it at all. You may need to be a little more aggressive with the bleeding until some condensation starts happening and establishes flow.
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peppers
5 Cubic Foot
Hello I am a new member as i just picked up a super clean 1933 GE CA-2-A16 Monitor Top!
Posts: 56
|
Post by peppers on Apr 27, 2021 13:09:00 GMT
I had another thought after I watched Turbo's video about re-wiring the light socket on the ck. When I run this machine I do not hear any waterfall or fluid moving down in the evaporator... Today I fired it up again and it ran for the longest it has ever run just over 11 min. it stayed around 300 watts for the first 5 minutes or so then up around 330 watts for another few min then up to 350. At 8 1/2 min in it was up to 350 watts then to 400-450 from 9 min on until it suddenly jumped to 600 then 1300 then 1000 and it shut down. The sound of the compressor also got significant louder almost like it was jump started or had a second gear. I am guessing because of the high watts. I did two more bleeds in but the evaporator did not get cold at all, the dome was 95 degrees, condenser was around 76top to 73 at bottom and float was 71. My shop was much warmer today about 70 in there. With it running that long surely it should have gotten cold so maybe there is not enough Methly Formate in the system, cold that be contributing to the high temps too? Dean, is there any chance this unit has a broken solder joint or big air leak on the evaporator? The reason the sound changed at the end before it tripped is because the current demand got so high that the start relay kicked back in. For the dome to be much hotter than the condenser; that means there is no flow going through it at all. You may need to be a little more aggressive with the bleeding until some condensation starts happening and establishes flow. I did another bleed last night, the machine ran the longest is has ever run just over 13 minutes. The watts this time stayed lower between 285 - 320. I got three bleeds in before it ramped up and kicked the relay back in. The dome was about 98 and the condenser was still hotter at the top then at the bottom 81 to 73 and the float chamber is still around 70 and no frost developing. I will keep trying...
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Post by ckfan on Apr 27, 2021 20:36:04 GMT
At least it sounds like you are making progress. Be patient.
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peppers
5 Cubic Foot
Hello I am a new member as i just picked up a super clean 1933 GE CA-2-A16 Monitor Top!
Posts: 56
|
Post by peppers on Apr 29, 2021 2:42:17 GMT
Today it seems I made some progress...The machine ran for 28 minutes before shutting down, getting longer each time. I was able to get 5 bleeds in and I did notice for the first time the tube coming from the float chamber was getting nice and cold at about 59 degrees. Unfortunately the dome temp kept increasing as did the condenser. The bottom right side of the evaporator was also getting cool but nothing else did. Is this progress normal or would I be better off to have the tech come out and evacuate this thing, charge it with nitrogen and see if I have a leak as Turbo suggested then re-charge it? Then at least I know the NCG's are gone and I have a full charge. I think that could be well worth the cost at this point. OR maybe I just keep bleeding...Any thoughts??
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Post by ckfan on Apr 29, 2021 11:58:34 GMT
I would just keep bleeding but I would bleed a little more aggressively. Just pay attention for the smell of methyl formate. You’ll know it when you smell it. You already know that you had an extreme case of NCGs. Pay attention to the sound of the compressor as you bleed. If you notice it starting to sound labored and the Watts start to climb a lot, I would bleed a little faster and see if that improves it. If not, shut it down and let it cool off before it seizes up.
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peppers
5 Cubic Foot
Hello I am a new member as i just picked up a super clean 1933 GE CA-2-A16 Monitor Top!
Posts: 56
|
Post by peppers on Apr 29, 2021 12:56:10 GMT
I would just keep bleeding but I would bleed a little more aggressively. Just pay attention for the smell of methyl formate. You’ll know it when you smell it. You already know that you had an extreme case of NCGs. Pay attention to the sound of the compressor as you bleed. If you notice it starting to sound labored and the Watts start to climb a lot, I would bleed a little faster and see if that improves it. If not, shut it down and let it cool off before it seizes up. Ok I can do that...I have smelled the methyl here and there but my concern was not to suck any oil or air in if I open it up too much. Also yesterday I forgot to mention that the watts all stayed between 228 to 315 so they are getting lower which is good. The compressor seems to run pretty evenly and this time when it shut down it did not ramp up it just quietly turned off...Thanks CKfan
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peppers
5 Cubic Foot
Hello I am a new member as i just picked up a super clean 1933 GE CA-2-A16 Monitor Top!
Posts: 56
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Post by peppers on May 10, 2021 0:05:21 GMT
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Post by ckfan on May 10, 2021 11:13:02 GMT
Very glad you got a full frost. As far as the control goes...that’s really strange. I honestly don’t know what would cause it to turn off but not back on. If you fiddle with the adjustment knob does it kick back on?
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Post by turbokinetic on May 10, 2021 14:42:23 GMT
Latest update... I have some really good news but potentially bad news as well. So after several more rounds of bleeding the unit finally got cold and frosted up. I was so psyched because I just wasn't sure if it was ever going to work, patience paid off. Now the watts are at about 150, the condenser is the same temp from top to bottom about 85-88 degrees depending on how hot the second floor of my barn is, the dome is right around 100 degrees give or take. The float chamber is just a few degrees below the condenser and the evaporator is at full frost and at times down to 0 degrees. I ran it several times before I decided to post so had a better idea of the problem. This last round I set the thermostat at 6 and it ran for about 1 hour and shut off, the cabinet temp was about 45. The problem is that it wont cycle back on. Would that mean the bellows are weak? What do I do now, any way to adjust from the inside or fix my model or is there another problem? I also re-did the cabinet top wrap with Gorilla tape and a new gasket that Turbo helped me with. I also put on a new door gasket and have an awesome recommendation for that which I will post next in the supplier section. Thanks for all the help fellas, I am so close with this unit and hoping for the best as I know the controls are like finding a unicorn... Here are some pics.. View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentHi Dean. Just a quick question. The operation you're seeing almost looks as if the control is in Defrost mode. That should make it cycle off and stay off until the evaporator temp is above freezing and all frost is gone. Probably something in the control is out of adjustment.
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peppers
5 Cubic Foot
Hello I am a new member as i just picked up a super clean 1933 GE CA-2-A16 Monitor Top!
Posts: 56
|
Post by peppers on May 10, 2021 18:01:27 GMT
Very glad you got a full frost. As far as the control goes...that’s really strange. I honestly don’t know what would cause it to turn off but not back on. If you fiddle with the adjustment knob does it kick back on? It has previously but not now, it has power and heater is on but wont turn back on and red is still showing about 1/2 in the window.
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peppers
5 Cubic Foot
Hello I am a new member as i just picked up a super clean 1933 GE CA-2-A16 Monitor Top!
Posts: 56
|
Post by peppers on May 10, 2021 18:05:13 GMT
Very glad you got a full frost. As far as the control goes...that’s really strange. I honestly don’t know what would cause it to turn off but not back on. If you fiddle with the adjustment knob does it kick back on? It has previously but not now, it has power and heater is on but wont turn back on and red is still showing about 1/2 in the window. Hi Alan, not really sure. This last time i set the thermostat lower at 6 just to see if it would run less and not get the dome too hot. It ran for about 45 minutes then i decided to lower the control just a bit and it shut off so i figured thats good it reached the desired temp but it never came back on and then it wouldnt turn on at all. I have been able to restart it in the past but the last time i had to take the control out and fiddled with that one lever near the ratchet wheel you saw was slipping and it reset. I figured it would happen again but not sure if its the same problem. I think i need someone to go through the control who can identify whats wrong but dont know who to ask?
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Post by turbokinetic on May 10, 2021 19:48:48 GMT
It has previously but not now, it has power and heater is on but wont turn back on and red is still showing about 1/2 in the window. Hi Alan, not really sure. This last time i set the thermostat lower at 6 just to see if it would run less and not get the dome too hot. It ran for about 45 minutes then i decided to lower the control just a bit and it shut off so i figured thats good it reached the desired temp but it never came back on and then it wouldnt turn on at all. I have been able to restart it in the past but the last time i had to take the control out and fiddled with that one lever near the ratchet wheel you saw was slipping and it reset. I figured it would happen again but not sure if its the same problem. I think i need someone to go through the control who can identify whats wrong but dont know who to ask? I can, if you can get it to me. Will be a few weeks before I'm home but I can get the control working.
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peppers
5 Cubic Foot
Hello I am a new member as i just picked up a super clean 1933 GE CA-2-A16 Monitor Top!
Posts: 56
|
Post by peppers on May 10, 2021 22:15:36 GMT
Hi Alan, not really sure. This last time i set the thermostat lower at 6 just to see if it would run less and not get the dome too hot. It ran for about 45 minutes then i decided to lower the control just a bit and it shut off so i figured thats good it reached the desired temp but it never came back on and then it wouldnt turn on at all. I have been able to restart it in the past but the last time i had to take the control out and fiddled with that one lever near the ratchet wheel you saw was slipping and it reset. I figured it would happen again but not sure if its the same problem. I think i need someone to go through the control who can identify whats wrong but dont know who to ask? I can, if you can get it to me. Will be a few weeks before I'm home but I can get the control working. Yes! that would be amazing David... PM you over text. Thanks as always.
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