rob
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Post by rob on Dec 24, 2016 13:29:03 GMT
Hi everyone, I am totally new to this and I would appreciate some advice from the pros. I just recently picked up a GE flat top refrigerator. There is a label on the underneath that says JB4 39A. There is a plate on the compressor that says CJ1 D13. From my limited internet research, I believe this means that it is a late 30s-early 40s fridge. It looks similar to the one in this video, minus the Harley Davidson paint job. Also my 'freezer section' is smaller than the one in the video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV4_uBBbi5wMine works and gets cool but it doesn't work very well. There are a few problems that I need to address. First of all, the wiring on it is both original and extra crispy, so that is the first order of business. I probably shouldn't have even plugged it in, but it was plugged in when I got it, so I threw caution to the wind and gave it a whirl. That's when I noticed that the cycle time was all messed up. It will run when I first plug it up, the freezer (evaporator?) will frost up and then it will kick off for like 20-30 minutes. During that time, the freezer section (is this called the evaporator?) will thaw out and drip. Then it will kick back on. I don't know enough about refrigerators to know what will cause this, but the relay is on the top of my list. The relay looks very questionable (also crispy looking) and they are reasonably cheap on this website so I figured I'd replace it 'just because' in hopes that it is part of, if not all of, my problem: store.antiqueappliances.com/Electrical-Parts_c_12.html A couple of questions before I go replacing the relay: 1) It looks like there are two grades of relay on this site; 1/2-1/5 hp relay and 1/4-1/3 hp relay. How do I know which one to buy? 2) After some reading, I believe that the original Bakelite relay has some sort of overload protection built in, is this correct? If so, does the relay I am considering purchasing also have the same overload protection circuit? 3) It looks like there is a relay with a capacitor available from the same website. They say this is for compressors with excessive resistance in the windings. What's considered excessive? There are 3 prongs on my compressor. I assume this is for START, RUN and NEUTRAL/COMMON, is that correct? What do I measure for determination of excessive resistance? START to RUN? COMMON to START? Etc.? Moving on to other problems, the sensor tube on the Thermostat has been crushed in in several spots so I assume that it could also be part of the problem. There is a universal thermostat on the same website and while it is not cheap, it is still within my budget for this project. Has anyone used one of these and are they decent replacements for these antique refrigerators? Lastly, I'd like to paint this thing once I get it running properly. To do it right, in my opinion, requires disassembly. Disassembly would also give me a chance to do something about the worn out 75 year old cardboard insulation. As I am sure you are all aware, there are a zillion screws holding down the black plastic strips that hold the inner shell inside the outer box. They are all pretty frozen. Any tips/tricks to removing them? Thank you for taking the time to read my post and offer some advice! Rob
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Post by coldspaces on Dec 24, 2016 14:33:03 GMT
The 39 in the cabinet # is the year, There is lots of info on the flat tops in the Scotch Yoke manual on our forum monitortop.freeforums.net/thread/15/service-manualSounds like your problem is in the control if the evap all frosts when it is running. Yes the overload is in the start relay, yours should be a 1/8 hp compressor, you what the Supco RO81. They are using there own part # at Antique Appliance. The control they are selling is really a Ranco A30-180. Both parts can be had elsewhere for less if you look around. Find the part # on your control and look here to see if I already cross referenced it. monitortop.freeforums.net/thread/95/ranco-controls-cross-reference. AS a test jumper the control and see if all the evap frosts and that should help confirm the refrigerating machine is working and you need a control. Here is what I have done to make a modern mechanical relay work. monitortop.freeforums.net/thread/37/ge-type-relay-modernizationDon't worry about a start capacitor, it isn't needed as long as the compressor is good. Yes there are a lot of screws and they can be hard to get out if rusted in bad enough. We have been advised in the past that they work better if you have a screw driver that's blade does not taper, they had ones that were straight back then and grab the slot in the screw head better.
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Post by ckfan on Dec 24, 2016 15:08:44 GMT
Yes to everything that coldspaces said. I will add that while you can go to the trouble of replacing the insulation, it is not always necessary. These fridges are crazy efficient as is. As long as the insulation isn't wet you should be fine. I've tested my CF1, very similar to yours, and it actually did very well. It actually met and exceeded the current energy star standards. Even with the original insulation they are crazy efficient. You could paint with everything still in place. You just have to be very careful.
Check out the post that I made "How I rewired my flat top" in this section. It will show you what you need to do to completely RE wire the thing. It will make it safe and reliable. These are the easiest to do.
Check out what cold spaces suggested for a thermostat, you should be able to find one that will work. It may not fit the old knob however. The relay probably should be replaced with a supco RO81 they are fantastic. The door seal also probably needs to be replaced. If you look in the supplier section you can find a seal made by mcmaster carr. They are great and work even better.
If you have any questions let us know. These flat tops are part of the monitor top family and you should be proud to own one. They are efficient, powerful, and extremely long lived. They are also super quiet.
Oh, you should probably paint the condenser, compressor, and the lines going to the condenser plate with a rust proofing paint. You don't want anything to rust and spring a leak, trust me.
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rob
New Member
Posts: 27
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Post by rob on Dec 25, 2016 17:11:24 GMT
Thank you for the reply!!! That is very handy information! I ordered a new relay and thermostat. They should be here in a week or so. In the meantime, I have been working on removing the million little screws on the bakelite plastic strips. I have thoroughly destroyed 4 of them and I'm probably going to have to drill them out. Are these screws made out of aluminum? They seem very soft. Does anyone have a source for some nice chrome or nickel replacements?
Thanks again ! Rob
P.S. For painting the compressor and the condenser for the purpose of rust prevention, what kind of paint do you recommend? I know that a lot of rattle can paints CLAIM to encapsulate and prevent rust, but many miss the mark in my experience. I was thinking that a nice gloss black would look really great!
Thanks!
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Post by ckfan on Dec 25, 2016 18:07:10 GMT
I'm honestly not sure which paint is better than another. I just use the old rustoleum rust converting spray and then follow up with gloss black.
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Post by timeswelding on Dec 26, 2016 12:35:17 GMT
When you replace the screws in the Textolite breaker strips, don't stick a modern screw into a hole without running a tap into it first. Those old screws are actually a #10-30 which is unobtanium today. The closest thing you will find will be a #10-32. A stainless slotted oval head is a reasonable replacement and once you replace them all, no one will ever be able to spot the slight difference. That is, after you polish all of the heads.
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rob
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Posts: 27
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Post by rob on Jan 4, 2017 0:52:45 GMT
Thanks for the replies, everyone! I finally got my new relay and thermostat in the mail and I am going to re-wire the unit this weekend. I am using this as a guide for the compressor wiring: www.justanswer.com/appliance/6gdir-old-ge-refrigerator-need-wiring-help-just-bought-start.htmlIs this description of how to determine which pin on the compressor is START, RUN and COMMON in the link above accurate? Also, in the description above, the poster says that the terminals for the compressor are in an upside down V configuration AND that the bottom left is start , center is common , and bottom right is run, is this accurate? Thanks again!!! Rob
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Post by ckfan on Jan 4, 2017 3:18:30 GMT
Thanks for the replies, everyone! I finally got my new relay and thermostat in the mail and I am going to re-wire the unit this weekend. I am using this as a guide for the compressor wiring: www.justanswer.com/appliance/6gdir-old-ge-refrigerator-need-wiring-help-just-bought-start.htmlIs this description of how to determine which pin on the compressor is START, RUN and COMMON in the link above accurate? Also, in the description above, the poster says that the terminals for the compressor are in an upside down V configuration AND that the bottom left is start , center is common , and bottom right is run, is this accurate? Thanks again!!! Rob The compressor wiring is easy. Remember though that the wires are currently soldered onto the terminals that go into the compressor. The proper way to go about this is to get the old wires out by heating them up and removing the wires. Then clean the terminals and solder the new wires on. If you aren't going to be using a soldering iron (and trust me, I highly suggest using the soldering iron from previous experience) you will have to tie the new wires into the old ones BUT you will have to get heat shrink tubing to go over the old wiring so protect it from being an electrical and fire hazard. Anyways, to answer your question about which terminal is which...the current wires should still have some color on them if you rub off the dust. I would buy 16 gauge grounded appliance cord or service cord to do the job of wiring the compressor and wiring up the rest of the unit. It should be colored green, white, and black. The old colors on the compressor terminals are red, white, and black. Just substitute the green for the red and you've got yourself a system. Now, you ask, how do you determine which terminal is which?? Well, the previous wire colors will tell you... Red (or green) is run, black is common, white is start. So, when you connect up the new wires...make green run, black common, and white starting. But, how do you tell which is which without any wires on the compressor at all?! Grab your multi meter and run the ohm meter on the terminals themselves without any wires connected. Run to start is always the highest reading (most resistance and most ohms), common to start is the next lowest reading, and common to run is always the lowest reading. Yes, this is what that guide was trying to tell you but now you also know some of the color coding as well. And besides, I already made up a post on here which goes over how I re wired my flat top. That can be found here: monitortop.freeforums.net/thread/811/re-wired-flat-topIt may not be a perfect guide but it will get you where you need to go as far as how to hook up the wires that go to the top of the unit and how the relay hooks up. BE AWARE HOWEVER, when I made that guide I was using the old relay. You will be installing a new relay so follow the instructions that are included with that relay. Basically (hook up one of the 120v in leads to the output wire coming from the thermostat and hook up the other wire to the neutral side of the circuit. Basically you just want to give it switched power through the thermostat. Then hook up the 3 colored wires that are bundled together to the three wires coming from the compressor. Hook up the power cord and the wires going up top and you will get where you are going). I know it sounds hard but it really isn't. If you need a more pictorial guide of how your fridge is wired...check out the CK section where you will find the scotch yoke manual. On page 96 you will find your units wiring diagram. I know that is a lot to take in at once so please ask any questions that you have before going on. It isn't impossible, it is actually quite doable and rewarding when it is done.
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Post by coldspaces on Jan 4, 2017 3:58:37 GMT
Great explanation ckfan!!
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rob
New Member
Posts: 27
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Post by rob on Jan 15, 2017 5:24:14 GMT
Well, I finally got it all wired up and she's running pretty well! I'm going to let it go for a couple of hours and see how it goes. BIG BIG thank you to everyone who helped me out. Re-wiring this old gal without help would have been impossible. It's really unbelievable how badly deteriorated the old wires were, yet, it was still sort of working. Scary!
Respectfully, Rob
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Post by coldspaces on Jan 15, 2017 5:28:48 GMT
Good to hear its running! Thanks for updating us.
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Post by ckfan on Jan 15, 2017 9:55:54 GMT
I'm also glad you got it running. Always glad to hear when we've helped another individual save a worthy fridge. Enjoy it. They are great machines.
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rob
New Member
Posts: 27
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Post by rob on Jan 17, 2017 12:25:07 GMT
My next step with this old fridge is to paint it. I think I read somewhere that it IS possible to remove the refrigeration unit without breaking the refrigeration lines. It looks like I'd have to bend the refrigeration lines to get the evaporator out of the box. Any suggestions on the best way to go about this?
Thanks again! Rob
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Post by coldspaces on Jan 17, 2017 14:14:52 GMT
My next step with this old fridge is to paint it. I think I read somewhere that it IS possible to remove the refrigeration unit without breaking the refrigeration lines. It looks like I'd have to bend the refrigeration lines to get the evaporator out of the box. Any suggestions on the best way to go about this? Thanks again! Rob Complete instructions for removing the system can be found in the Scotch Yoke manual. It can be fouind here monitortop.freeforums.net/thread/15/service-manual
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rob
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Posts: 27
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Post by rob on Jan 18, 2017 0:28:18 GMT
Good grief!! That's a lot of info! Thank you SO much! I'm going to get comfy and start reading It might take me awhile to get it painted but when I do, I'll post pictures. Respectfully, Rob
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