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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 2, 2018 19:21:21 GMT
Hello, I just joined the group (totally inexperienced) & recently bought my first Monitor fridge CK-2. It works & sounds great, but (I have ordered the shop manual but do not have it yet) I'm wondering if the unit can be completely rewired without cutting the refrigerant lines & degassing. Haven't pulled the head off yet, but a friend has so far nicely rebuilt my old cord using 12G wire. I am hesitant to cut the gas lines on a unit that is working so well at this time, but willing to do what is needed. Any replies are appreciated. Thanks! Welcome! Very nice that you were able to get a working CK.
I have to second everyone else's opinion that it is not necessary; and is in fact highly undesirable; to cut the refrigerant lines. The original refrigerant and oil have been sealed up in there and working for decades. It only stands to hurt things to open the system.
Recently, I rewired a CK-2-B16 for a friend. His had already suffered a broken line, so I didn't have to worry about losing the charge. Even without this concern, I was able to do the rewiring without cutting any lines.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 19:31:58 GMT
Thanks! This is good news; I thought I had to cut lines to get to all the wires.This new info actually makes the job easier than expected!
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 2, 2018 19:38:05 GMT
Thanks! This is good news; I thought I had to cut lines to get to all the wires.This new info actually makes the job easier than expected! Highly recommend starting from the beginning of this thread and reading it through. The guys have made a great step-by-step procedure with pictures.
I didn't use the time-saving procedure, because I had to take the top off this unit anyway to repair a broken line. But with it sitting on the floor as you see it, that small gap was enough to get a soldering iron in there and attach a new wiring to the compressor.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 23:14:42 GMT
Thank you everyone! My friend is an electronics engineer who said she would like to do the rewiring for me but we were (previously) concerned about the tubes/lines getting in the way. She has not previously worked on fridges before, but wants to use MIL-SPEC aviation wire on it throughout; talk about "overkill"...! We will indeed read this entire section before we begin. Thanks, John & Renee
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Post by elec573 on Jun 3, 2018 1:30:20 GMT
Welcome to the forum! There is a wealth of information here please look through the threads it’s all free , then ask questions. Rewireing is a necessity , door gaskets also . Something 80 plus years old still working, it’s a testament to how well they were built.
Ps. I like the way you’re girlfriend thinks that’s why these fridges still work !
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Post by csulaguy on Jun 4, 2018 15:16:13 GMT
Thank you everyone! My friend is an electronics engineer who said she would like to do the rewiring for me but we were (previously) concerned about the tubes/lines getting in the way. She has not previously worked on fridges before, but wants to use MIL-SPEC aviation wire on it throughout; talk about "overkill"...! We will indeed read this entire section before we begin. Thanks, John & Renee Welcome to the forum! There is a wealth of information here please look through the threads it’s all free , then ask questions. Rewireing is a necessity , door gaskets also . Something 80 plus years old still working, it’s a testament to how well they were built. Ps. I like the way you’re girlfriend thinks that’s why these fridges still work ! LOL to the MIL-SPEC wire. It doesn't need to be that fancy. Then again, I don't think MIL-SPEC wire is that much better, is it? Another project I did was a lot of repairs on a military surplus genset I have (had 2 high pressure sodium lights up top that I converted to high pressure sodium). Anyways, I thought this was going to be hard; I still have one more CK that I need to rewire (previous owners rewired some of it, but I don't think they did the internals). I lifted mine up with 2x6's, while it was on the cabinet, followed the directions on here for pulling down the cardboard cover, and got to work. I think the whole job took me under an hour. Sadly, I don't remember what I used, but I did take pictures. Or rather, I used both 2 conductor and 3 conductor, but I don't remember how much I used. I didn't ground the fridge (didn't think it was necessary). I also made my cord about 6 feet from the cabinet light plug, as where it's situated now, it's not near an outlet.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 5, 2018 1:52:22 GMT
Thank you everyone! My friend is an electronics engineer who said she would like to do the rewiring for me but we were (previously) concerned about the tubes/lines getting in the way. She has not previously worked on fridges before, but wants to use MIL-SPEC aviation wire on it throughout; talk about "overkill"...! We will indeed read this entire section before we begin. Thanks, John & Renee Welcome to the forum! There is a wealth of information here please look through the threads it’s all free , then ask questions. Rewireing is a necessity , door gaskets also . Something 80 plus years old still working, it’s a testament to how well they were built. Ps. I like the way you’re girlfriend thinks that’s why these fridges still work ! LOL to the MIL-SPEC wire. It doesn't need to be that fancy. Then again, I don't think MIL-SPEC wire is that much better, is it? Another project I did was a lot of repairs on a military surplus genset I have (had 2 high pressure sodium lights up top that I converted to high pressure sodium). Anyways, I thought this was going to be hard; I still have one more CK that I need to rewire (previous owners rewired some of it, but I don't think they did the internals). I lifted mine up with 2x6's, while it was on the cabinet, followed the directions on here for pulling down the cardboard cover, and got to work. I think the whole job took me under an hour. Sadly, I don't remember what I used, but I did take pictures. Or rather, I used both 2 conductor and 3 conductor, but I don't remember how much I used. I didn't ground the fridge (didn't think it was necessary). I also made my cord about 6 feet from the cabinet light plug, as where it's situated now, it's not near an outlet.
It's funny how people think "Mil Spec" means "totally amazingly overbuilt" but in reality, there are many, many military specifications which define all sorts of products. These specifications are used by the military engineers to allow different manufacturers to produce interchangeable materials that can be used in the numerous applications the military uses. They have a military specification for "plain jane wire" along with specifications for very high cost and high durability materials. The phrase "Mil Spec" needs to be followed by a number, so that you can look up the intended use of that material and what its characteristics are. Just saying it is "Mil Spec" means it was used at some point by the military, but could have been very mundane in nature.
For my rewire, I used type MTW / THHN wire, which is a rated for use as internal wire in cabinets, panels, and machinery. It's good for use from -13°F to 220°F at up to 600V. After removing the original wiring from the unit in one piece, I made a wiring harness out of this wire. It was made by twisting the wire using an electric drill. I had a 3-core branch of the harness from the compressor to the start relay, with two cores going on past the compressor to the thermostat control. Then, color coded heat shrink tube was used to make the all yellow wire cores have some sense of understandability to them. Finally, the entire harness was coated in heat shrink sleeve to make it more durable and look better.
CKfan has done a great job documenting this already, so these pictures are a little redundant - but I believe it will be helpful to add the pictures of another successful CK rewire to this thread. It's good to show different angles and materials etc.
The harness made up. Used the original to get a length measurement, but made new one a little longer to allow for easier connection of the thermostat.
Thermostat connected. The ends of the cores are tinned with 2% silver bearing solder and then formed into a loop. This is as close as I could get to the original crimped-in grommets. Normal "ring terminals" don't seem to work here, as they are too long where the wire core is attached to the terminal.
The new harness getting attached to the compressor pins. The sleeves used are tinned copper ferriules. I cut them off from "yellow" sized crimp lugs. They fit over the compressor pins with enough room for the wire to slide in beside it, and then everything got soldered.
Again; the pictures above were taken, and the work done without removing and refrigerant lines, and also without removing the cardboard around the bottom of the cooling unit. That would have made it easier, but at the time I didn't know what would have been involved.
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Post by elec573 on Jun 5, 2018 2:17:35 GMT
There’s also a good reproduction cabinet light plug for your cord . Look in the supplier section. I picked up some and they work well.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2018 4:17:19 GMT
I'm feeling a bit lambasted here... and already on just my third posting as a new member; I had the impression members did not do this to others on the group; I'll get you the spec numbers. They HAVE been researched. I'm not the electronics engineer; SHE is. I can not explain it perfectly or know it like she does. It is, however, silver plated copper aviation wire with a very hi temp jacket that "lubricates" itself when in contact with metal (if that should occur), sort of like teflon. She has deeply researched the properties of this material & it is indeed outstanding, in her view.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2018 4:43:27 GMT
The solder she will be using consists of 25% silver, 25% copper, 25% tin, & 25% lead, and is $140 a pound. The wire is silver plated stranded copper with PTFE insulation 600V. She has already attached/soldered the wiring with ring terminals to the thermostat (IMPOSSIBLE)?? with shrink wrap attached to where the wire meets the connector loops, & the cover fits PERFECTLY as original, without having been modified. I'm sure someone will STILL want to find fault with this...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2018 6:29:17 GMT
I want to especially thank elec573 and CKFAN for their sterling qualities, by their remaining helpful & upbeat & consistent throughout this "discussion", and seeing the good & the positive side in what some of us folks here are trying to attempt to do & by sharing with others our experiences with the fridge. But, it can really produce some "flak" from some, that seems to suddenly "jump out" of "nowhere", just when we thought they liked us! RENEE & I BOTH thank both of you & a few others for keeping a level head! May there be many more like you to help keep harmony alive here.
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Post by Travis on Jun 5, 2018 6:32:32 GMT
cklove,
I don’t think anyone is meaning to criticize your approach, we simply are viewing it as overkill.
Standard copper SJ cord from Home Depot does the trick just fine.
I use noninsulated #6 ring terminals on the control end. They can fit under the cover.
I’m happy you’re figuring out a method you like.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 5, 2018 11:51:22 GMT
I'm feeling a bit lambasted here... and already on just my third posting as a new member; I had the impression members did not do this to others on the group Not at all; and I am sorry you felt that way.
I reread my post above and honestly don't see where I said anything critical of your ideas, at all. I think all of us here want one thing, to share our experiences restoring and fixing these antique fridges (and other machines). What I intended was, to show the way I had successfully done this, in the way that the other guys have shown their methods. I'm very passionate about this sort of work and respect others who share this passion. The absolute last thing I want to do is drive somebody away from the forum, or from sharing projects in any way.
In this hobby (and in the engineering industry as your friend will know!) it's very desirable to have repeatable success. One way to help others repeat your success is to carefully document the process and materials used. I tried diligently to document the materials and methods I used so that it would help someone in the future. Nothing was said about their superiority or inferiority to anything else anyone had used. Honestly - I used what I had on hand, after verifying it was suitable by researching the specification.
The written words you see on a screen don't convey the same amount of information as spoken words. They have no intonation and body language. Our minds want to fill in the blanks left by this, with whatever we want to hear. In the past, I have fallen into a trap where the words were actually neutral (or even positive) but I got an uncomfortable sensation after reading it. It's a matter of subconscious expectations.
Your posts have been so positive up to this point, I filled in the blanks (as explained above) that you were expecting to see positive, supportive replies; and interesting discussion; and would tend to interpret what was said in a positive manner. I was really surprised and disappointed to see it didn't come across that way. Again, I don't see where I criticized you - however again, I am very sorry that you feel unhappy with what I said.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2018 21:11:28 GMT
TURBOKINETIC, The part where you said "It's funny how people think MIL Spec means "totally amazingly overbuilt" but could be mundane" is where the insult began; I then went on to explain that I was not just sloppily "imagining" the wiring is good, but that what we're using Really is, & that it can be proven. If a turd is thrown at someone like this, & then the thrower ties to spray perfume on it & say "it wasn't one", it still remains a turd. And now I'm seeing that your focus has now switched to a psychoanalysis of how wrongly I am perceiving your "kind" comments. (Whatever happened to the discussion of the REFRIGERATORS, anyhow)? You do not seem get as critical or psychoanalytic with the more senior members here; you don't DARE! We will either have to get back on the shared fridge topic, or this "debate" is never going to end.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 5, 2018 21:38:56 GMT
TURBOKINETIC, The part where you said "It's funny how people think MIL Spec means "totally amazingly overbuilt" but could be mundane" is where the insult began... I hope you have success with your project.
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