miles
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Posts: 25
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Post by miles on Jul 27, 2021 17:49:16 GMT
Hi Everyone, this forum inspired me to finally get a monitor top, I've read as much as I could on here, and went for it since I enjoy everything old, even though vintage appliances is a new thing for me.
The fridge works, or... "runs." I don't know how to discern a healthy running CK from a poorly running one. And I'd like to find that out before I entertain the idea of doing a full rewire, propping that heavy top open, risking damaging something, or doing all that work in vain only to find out a relay or switch is bad later on...
Here's what I know about it, hopefully this gives you all some insight as if it's worth doing or not:
MECHANICAL: 1- Compressor runs, very quietly when warm, but makes a rattle or gurgle sounds when it hasn't run in a while at start-up for about 30 seconds to a minute. 2- Top is lukewarm to the touch, but not hot. 3- Evaporator / ice tray gets cold with a small film of frost after 10 - 15 min, evenly all the way to the header. 4- ON button works, OFF button as well. 5 DEFROST mode, well... no idea what it's supposed to do or sound like when selected, but no change in the behavior of the compressor. 6- TEMP control doesn't do anything, I ran the fridge on full cold for 20+ minutes, then cranked the knob to "1" minimum to see if that would turn the compressor off, but the fridge kept running the same. 7- No smell of SO2.
BODY: 1- Door handle spring and pin is busted, can only be opened from the foot pedal. 2- Door liner (black plastic surrounds) has a hole in it, and missing a few screws here and there. 3- Light bulb doesn't work, and strangely the door frame has two push switches instead of just one.
Not sure if the thermostat, controls, relay or something electrical is out of service and just makes the fridge run forever, or if I didn't wait long enough?
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 27, 2021 18:40:08 GMT
Hi Everyone, this forum inspired me to finally get a monitor top, I've read as much as I could on here, and went for it since I enjoy everything old, even though vintage appliances is a new thing for me. The fridge works, or... "runs." I don't know how to discern a healthy running CK from a poorly running one. And I'd like to find that out before I entertain the idea of doing a full rewire, propping that heavy top open, risking damaging something, or doing all that work in vain only to find out a relay or switch is bad later on... Here's what I know about it, hopefully this gives you all some insight as if it's worth doing or not: MECHANICAL: 1- Compressor runs, very quietly when warm, but makes a rattle or gurgle sounds when it hasn't run in a while at start-up for about 30 seconds to a minute. 2- Top is lukewarm to the touch, but not hot. 3- Evaporator / ice tray gets cold with a small film of frost after 10 - 15 min, evenly all the way to the header. 4- ON button works, OFF button as well. 5 DEFROST mode, well... no idea what it's supposed to do or sound like when selected, but no change in the behavior of the compressor. 6- TEMP control doesn't do anything, I ran the fridge on full cold for 20+ minutes, then cranked the knob to "1" minimum to see if that would turn the compressor off, but the fridge kept running the same. 7- No smell of SO2. BODY: 1- Door handle spring and pin is busted, can only be opened from the foot pedal. 2- Door liner (black plastic surrounds) has a hole in it, and missing a few screws here and there. 3- Light bulb doesn't work, and strangely the door frame has two push switches instead of just one. Not sure if the thermostat, controls, relay or something electrical is out of service and just makes the fridge run forever, or if I didn't wait long enough? Hi Miles. Super glad to have you on the forum! I will try to answer your questions by number here! 1 - The rattle for a few minutes while warming up is normal. Nothing to worry about! 2 - That again is normal, for a machine which is working. The outside drum (the condenser) should get warm quickly after startup. 3 - That frost pattern sounds normal. 4, 5 - The defrost position on the control will make the off-cycles much longer so that the machine defrosts its self without actually shutting down. Won't make a difference until there is ice built up and it's cold enough to be cycling off and on. 6 - May take an hour or more with door closed and good gaskets to get cold enough to cycle off. Be sure the thermostat sensing tube is in contact with the evaporator so it can sense the temperature of the coil. 7 - That is definitely a plus. 1 - Post in the Classified area if you haven't already. Share pictures because the cabinets are usually mixed and matched and pictures are the only way to know which parts you need. Save every part of the old handle because it might be repairable or have some good parts you could use to fix another handle. 2 - Again ask in the classified area. Those strips are called 'breaker strips' and are made of a material called 'textolite' which is similar to Formica. 3 - Very strange about the two switches! You may need to look behind the textolite strip to see how it's all wired up. Hopefully others can chime in! Sincerely, David
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miles
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by miles on Jul 27, 2021 19:53:07 GMT
Cheers David. So seems it is operating as it should, I just didn't wait long enough. I'm running it a second time, this time for much longer and I'll play with the controls. And thank you for clarifying the defrost mode, I understand now. I'll definitely create a "Wanted" post in classified for sure with pictures. And you're right, nothing will be thrown away, you never know if someone else may need it Lastly, regarding the Textolite breaker strips, hinges, etc. Are there any companies / people out there fabricating or manufacturing reproduction parts for these fridges? Or is it that all fully restored Monitor Tops always get their parts from donor machines?
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 27, 2021 20:45:09 GMT
Cheers David. So seems it is operating as it should, I just didn't wait long enough. I'm running it a second time, this time for much longer and I'll play with the controls. And thank you for clarifying the defrost mode, I understand now. I'll definitely create a "Wanted" post in classified for sure with pictures. And you're right, nothing will be thrown away, you never know if someone else may need it Lastly, regarding the Textolite breaker strips, hinges, etc. Are there any companies / people out there fabricating or manufacturing reproduction parts for these fridges? Or is it that all fully restored Monitor Tops always get their parts from donor machines? I think, in general, restorers source parts from unrestorable machines bought for parts; or we rebuild / refurbish the original parts so that they are serviceable again. Anything can be reproduced with enough cost and time.
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Post by ckfan on Jul 27, 2021 22:53:50 GMT
About the switches and the light bulb. One of the “switches” is actually not a switch. It’s the door popper. It is a spring loaded plunger that forces the door open when you use the foot pedal. Have you made sure that the cabinet light plug in on the back is being used? Since the top comes off of the cabinet, the cabinet has a recessed plug in on the back to provide power to the light.
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miles
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by miles on Jul 28, 2021 0:21:09 GMT
About the switches and the light bulb. One of the “switches” is actually not a switch. It’s the door popper. It is a spring loaded plunger that forces the door open when you use the foot pedal. Have you made sure that the cabinet light plug in on the back is being used? Since the top comes off of the cabinet, the cabinet has a recessed plug in on the back to provide power to the light. But the switches are both on the opposite side of the door handle and foot pedal rod. When I push the pedal, the cabinet latch moves, but not the knobs on the other side, they definitely look like electrical switches / buttons.
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miles
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by miles on Jul 28, 2021 0:37:03 GMT
Also a quick update: The fridge has now been running for five hours on full cold, the temperature inside the middle of the cabinet, (pull / rack shelf) is hovering around 33-34ºF in a hot garage (95ºF ambient air).
I think this is plenty cold for the thermostat / bellow to start regulating, however to no avail. The control knob doesn't change a thing, the compressor still runs wether on 1 or 9.
Sooo I know machines are dumb and figured from looking at diagrams that the TEMP control might affect or work with the ON / OFF / DEFROST control: • The thermostat will only work if the top knob is in the OFF position, with the compressor turned OFF. • THEN if I start to rotate the TEMP control, I can hear and feel a click from the bellow? • Turn the TEMP control toward a warmer setting until you hear the "click" telling you the cabinet is too cold and the comp doesn't need to be running. • Switch the fridge back to ON, and the compressor doesn't run. Good. • While in ON mode, crank the TEMP back to a colder setting and the bellow clicks, and compressor starts running again. But turn it back down to warm after this, and it doesn't work anymore, the fridge has to be OFF.
Could it be simply current forcing tired bi-metallic contacts to stick or am I missing something?
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 28, 2021 13:08:04 GMT
Also a quick update: The fridge has now been running for five hours on full cold, the temperature inside the middle of the cabinet, (pull / rack shelf) is hovering around 33-34ºF in a hot garage (95ºF ambient air). I think this is plenty cold for the thermostat / bellow to start regulating, however to no avail. The control knob doesn't change a thing, the compressor still runs wether on 1 or 9. Sooo I know machines are dumb and figured from looking at diagrams that the TEMP control might affect or work with the ON / OFF / DEFROST control: • The thermostat will only work if the top knob is in the OFF position, with the compressor turned OFF. • THEN if I start to rotate the TEMP control, I can hear and feel a click from the bellow? • Turn the TEMP control toward a warmer setting until you hear the "click" telling you the cabinet is too cold and the comp doesn't need to be running. • Switch the fridge back to ON, and the compressor doesn't run. Good. • While in ON mode, crank the TEMP back to a colder setting and the bellow clicks, and compressor starts running again. But turn it back down to warm after this, and it doesn't work anymore, the fridge has to be OFF. Could it be simply current forcing tired bi-metallic contacts to stick or am I missing something? The control does have one set of contacts for both the thermostat and the selector switch. If you move the selector switch to off, when the thermostat is just about to turn off - the contacts will not close again even when the switch is turned back on. They won't close again until the thermostat warms up. As these controls wear over time, they tend to run colder. The cabinet in the mid to low 30's is where it should be for a maximum cold thermostat setting. You may need to make a calibration adjustment on the thermostat to bring it back in range where it should be. This is easy but you have to follow the procedure exactly or you will get shocked or make the thermostat worse. The overview of the procedure is as follows. You will set the thermostat to its current "warmest" setting. Then without turning the thermostat shaft, you will remove the knob from the thermostat. Without turning the thermostat shaft, you will then re-install the knob onto the shaft, with the knob re-oriented to the "coldest" setting. This will shift the range of the thermostat "one turn warmer." Once the knob is re-attached, rotate the knob all the way around to the warmest setting. After making this adjustment, let the fridge run again for a while until it stabilizes. It should be cycling and working normally. If that wasn't enough, make the same adjustment again. The details are as follows. 1 - Disconnect the power from the fridge. You will be coming into contact with parts which are electrically live. 2 - Remove the metal trim plate from around the controls. Pry carefully and evenly from each side alternatively. 3 - Remove the center "pointer" from the temperature adjuster knob. It may be removed using the corner of a utility blade. Save the cover. It is a safety related item. 4 - Rotate the thermostat knob to the warmest setting. 5 - Remove the screw from the center of the knob, being careful not to rotate the shaft of the thermostat. NOTE WELL this screw and the shaft are electrically live if the unit is connected to power. 6 - Replace the knob in the "coldest" position without turning the thermostat shaft. In other words, remove the knob, rotate the knob only, and re-install the knob in a new position, at the coldest setting. Do not rotate the thermostat shaft during this process. Only change the position of the knob on the shaft. 7 - Replace the screw to retain the knob. 8 - Place tape over the opening where the pointer would go. This is to temporarily shield the screw from contact because it will be electrically live. 9 - Plug the fridge back into power and operate it until temperature stabilizes. 10 - Observe performance of the thermostat. Repeat steps 1 through 10 until performance is OK. 11 - Replace the pointer. This is important to shield the electrically live screw from accidental contact. If the pointer is missing, the screw can be covered by filling the hole with a soft silicone sealer.
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miles
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by miles on Jul 28, 2021 16:11:34 GMT
The thing is, when the top knob is in the OFF position, the fridge is nice and cool, the clicks from the thermostat happen in a normal range, (a click around the 3, and one around the 6). But those clicks do not happen anymore if the fridge is turned back on, or even defrost.
One last thing out of desperation I took a stick of hard cardboard and tapped the top of the control box behind the fins (ON mode, high cold setting 6-7), and while it didn't work every single time, it did click and kick the compressor on. I'm having second thoughts about the re-positioning of the knob procedure you described above, what do you think David? It really feel like something is getting stuck, or am I stubborn?
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 28, 2021 17:04:10 GMT
The thing is, when the top knob is in the OFF position, the fridge is nice and cool, the clicks from the thermostat happen in a normal range, (a click around the 3, and one around the 6). But those clicks do not happen anymore if the fridge is turned back on, or even defrost. One last thing out of desperation I took a stick of hard cardboard and tapped the top of the control box behind the fins (ON mode, high cold setting 6-7), and while it didn't work every single time, it did click and kick the compressor on. I'm having second thoughts about the re-positioning of the knob procedure you described above, what do you think David? It really feel like something is getting stuck, or am I stubborn? That is strange. Nothing should click when the temperature knob is turned while in OFF mode. It does sound like your control may be in need of servicing.
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miles
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by miles on Jul 28, 2021 17:45:36 GMT
The thing is, when the top knob is in the OFF position, the fridge is nice and cool, the clicks from the thermostat happen in a normal range, (a click around the 3, and one around the 6). But those clicks do not happen anymore if the fridge is turned back on, or even defrost. One last thing out of desperation I took a stick of hard cardboard and tapped the top of the control box behind the fins (ON mode, high cold setting 6-7), and while it didn't work every single time, it did click and kick the compressor on. I'm having second thoughts about the re-positioning of the knob procedure you described above, what do you think David? It really feel like something is getting stuck, or am I stubborn? That is strange. Nothing should click when the temperature knob is turned while in OFF mode. It does sound like your control may be in need of servicing. Really? I thought the click was normal regardless if the fridge is on or off since it sounds like a mechanical click, same feel as a space heater thermostat, it clicks regardless if the device is powered or not. I'm attaching a video that hopefully can show you better than I am with words, haha! NOTE: Ignore the position of the OFF button, I know it's not engaged all the way, I was just trying to see if there was a sweet spot, but it's the same, as long as it's off.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 28, 2021 17:57:24 GMT
That is strange. Nothing should click when the temperature knob is turned while in OFF mode. It does sound like your control may be in need of servicing. Really? I thought the click was normal regardless if the fridge is on or off since it sounds like a mechanical click, same feel as a space heater thermostat, it clicks regardless if the device is powered or not. I'm attaching a video that hopefully can show you better than I am with words, haha! NOTE: Ignore the position of the OFF button, I know it's not engaged all the way, I was just trying to see if there was a sweet spot, but it's the same, as long as it's off. Unfortunately, the speakers are blown on my laptop! Will listen to the video once I get off work this evening and back to my hotel room. The thermostat in these is unique in that the same set of contact points are used for the off-on switch and the temperature functionality. If the switch is "off" it holds the contacts open, so that the temperature function can't close them so there shouldn't much of a sound when moving the knob in the "off" position. Will look for a video where I have one open.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 28, 2021 18:08:32 GMT
Found it! This video was mainly to help another get a new knob installed in his control. It shoes how it works, though.
https://youtu.be/RR9BBZufB-0
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miles
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by miles on Jul 28, 2021 19:36:42 GMT
Okay, that video you posted helps a lot understanding the components! So that action you're doing at 3:40 time stamp, moving the bellow's arm and you have that click: This is exactly what I'm hearing moving the TEMP knob back and forth as it should, but only when the top switch in OFF.
If I turn it back ON, I get two scenarios: A- ON > Below the stat's threshold > Compressor NOT running > Turn UP to COLDER > Arm clicks, and compressor turns on. B- ON > Above the stat's threshold > Compressor IS running > Turn DOWN to WARMER > Nothing clicks, compressors keeps running.
After either of these scenarios, keeping the unit ON, turning the TEMP knob in either direction and nothing will happen until you repeat the procedure by turning it OFF first.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 29, 2021 15:31:02 GMT
Okay, that video you posted helps a lot understanding the components! So that action you're doing at 3:40 time stamp, moving the bellow's arm and you have that click: This is exactly what I'm hearing moving the TEMP knob back and forth as it should, but only when the top switch in OFF. If I turn it back ON, I get two scenarios: A- ON > Below the stat's threshold > Compressor NOT running > Turn UP to COLDER > Arm clicks, and compressor turns on. B- ON > Above the stat's threshold > Compressor IS running > Turn DOWN to WARMER > Nothing clicks, compressors keeps running. After either of these scenarios, keeping the unit ON, turning the TEMP knob in either direction and nothing will happen until you repeat the procedure by turning it OFF first. Miles, I really think you could do some good by trying to re-calibrate it.
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