janthetoolman
New Member
Can anyone tell me what a D-2-A16 is?
Posts: 27
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Post by janthetoolman on May 12, 2019 23:34:36 GMT
I finally got back to working on my monitor top. (actually this second one is a CK2-C16) Reran the ohms. Start to Run 15.3. Run to Common 11.5. Common to Start 3.8. Any post to ground, no reading.
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Post by turbokinetic on May 12, 2019 23:42:54 GMT
I finally got back to working on my monitor top. (actually this second one is a CK2-C16) Reran the ohms. Start to Run 15.3. Run to Common 11.5. Common to Start 3.8. Any post to ground, no reading.
That's interesting. It seems like the readings for Run and Start are potentially backwards; however. The start winding always has more resistance than the run winding. A burned out winding will pretty well have to be either lower in resistance than normal; or completely open. It's highly unlikely for the run winding to gain resistance like that.
I would reconnect the Supco device, but use the 3.8Ω winding for "run" and the 11.5Ω winding for "start" and see what happens. Connect a kill-a-watt meter and see what the running current is, as well.
Sincerely, David
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Post by birkie on May 13, 2019 2:50:36 GMT
I finally got back to working on my monitor top. (actually this second one is a CK2-C16) Reran the ohms. Start to Run 15.3. Run to Common 11.5. Common to Start 3.8. Any post to ground, no reading.
That's interesting. It seems like the readings for Run and Start are potentially backwards; however. The start winding always has more resistance than the run winding. A burned out winding will pretty well have to be either lower in resistance than normal; or completely open. It's highly unlikely for the run winding to gain resistance like that.
I would reconnect the Supco device, but use the 3.8Ω winding for "run" and the 11.5Ω winding for "start" and see what happens. Connect a kill-a-watt meter and see what the running current is, as well.
Sincerely, David
It sure looks like run and start are mixed up, let's hope that's it. The readings would at least be plausible in that case, and there may be hope yet.
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Post by turbokinetic on May 13, 2019 13:58:18 GMT
That's interesting. It seems like the readings for Run and Start are potentially backwards; however. The start winding always has more resistance than the run winding. A burned out winding will pretty well have to be either lower in resistance than normal; or completely open. It's highly unlikely for the run winding to gain resistance like that.
I would reconnect the Supco device, but use the 3.8Ω winding for "run" and the 11.5Ω winding for "start" and see what happens. Connect a kill-a-watt meter and see what the running current is, as well.
Sincerely, David
It sure looks like run and start are mixed up, let's hope that's it. The readings would at least be plausible in that case, and there may be hope yet. If that were the case; with an RO81... Probably the PTC start device would not carry enough current to actuate the run winding, and would time out within a fraction of a second. The start winding alone wouldn't run the motor. After that, the start winding would have been energized by its self. We can hope that it would have drawn enough amps to trip the RO81 overload breaker before damage happened.
Very hopeful and interested to see what happens with his continued troubleshooting!
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janthetoolman
New Member
Can anyone tell me what a D-2-A16 is?
Posts: 27
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Post by janthetoolman on May 14, 2019 0:49:15 GMT
So I took the RO81 off and put it back together with the run and start reversed. Nothing. Bypassed the on/off temp gauge. Nothing. Had my grandson stand on his head while I plugged it in. Nothing. I think I will stick with building spacecraft, they are much simpler.
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janthetoolman
New Member
Can anyone tell me what a D-2-A16 is?
Posts: 27
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Post by janthetoolman on May 14, 2019 2:56:15 GMT
But I did try again, Center post(common) to black from power cord. Front post (run?) (closest to on/off temp switch) to white from power cord. Mothing. Add touch from back post(start?). Nothing. 2nd test. Black power still to common, White power to back post (start) a steady hummmmmmmm Touch from front post either of the other two posts, no change.
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Post by turbokinetic on May 14, 2019 9:26:43 GMT
But I did try again, Center post(common) to black from power cord. Front post (run?) (closest to on/off temp switch) to white from power cord. Mothing. Add touch from back post(start?). Nothing. 2nd test. Black power still to common, White power to back post (start) a steady hummmmmmmm Touch from front post either of the other two posts, no change.
Wow, that is indeed really strange!!! I sure wish I was closer and could see it firsthand.
It is so strange that
(A) you had power on common to run in the first test, and got nothing when energizing start winding for a moment. but also: (b) you had power energizing the start winding and got a humming sound on the second test.
Do you have an amp meter or a kill-a-watt meter to see what sort of current demand there is? And more importantly how does it change when the run start circuit is turned on or off?
Was there any spark when you touched the wire to the post during the tests?
One last question and please don't feel like I am talking down to you. But I have to ask. The unit was upright during these tests? I am not sure the rotor would turn if it were not upright.
Sincerely, David
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janthetoolman
New Member
Can anyone tell me what a D-2-A16 is?
Posts: 27
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Post by janthetoolman on May 14, 2019 11:44:43 GMT
David: Yes to A and B. I do not have either amp meter or kill-a-watt but may invest in one. When I touched the third wire to power, the hum did not change, it continued. The second test I know there was a spark with the start wire, but I do not remember on the first test. And don't feel bad about the last question, because the older I get the less I realize that I know about things. Yes, I have had the unit sitting on a cart with a come-a-long attached to give me room to get my hands underneath. Thanks Jan
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janthetoolman
New Member
Can anyone tell me what a D-2-A16 is?
Posts: 27
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Post by janthetoolman on Jun 2, 2019 18:31:17 GMT
I need to post again and especially thank Joneski for the help in determining that the second CK that I purchased now doesn't work either. And no I am not interested in another one to fix the first two. I am going back to where I was before buying the second unit, in that I would like to find a cooling unit that I could mate to the coils that are there and plumb to a small unit underneath. I have seen pictures but no explanation of what was used. Has anyone had the experience of doing this? If I can't find out how to do this, I won't have more junk that doesn't work in the shop. I'll sell the parts and scrap the rest.
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Post by coldspaces on Jun 21, 2019 3:25:55 GMT
A modern cooling unit will not mate to the original coil. It you are going that route you will need to adapt the correct coil for the cooling unit. A modern cooling unit has to little oil in to work with the original coil.
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janthetoolman
New Member
Can anyone tell me what a D-2-A16 is?
Posts: 27
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Post by janthetoolman on Jun 23, 2019 12:45:03 GMT
Yes, I realize that the "modern" refers do not have enough capacity to be able to use the original coils. But I have been told that the late 40's or early 50's had a removable unit that you could mate new condenser to the monitor top. Anyone know what the models are?
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Post by Travis on Jun 24, 2019 0:08:09 GMT
No, I don’t. We’ve focused on repairing the original equipment here and not creating a Frankenstein system. You might ask elsewhere for that advice. There seems to be no shortage of hvac opinions online.
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Post by cablehack on Jun 24, 2019 0:14:58 GMT
But I have been told that the late 40's or early 50's had a removable unit that you could mate new condenser to the monitor top. Anyone know what the models are? First I've heard of that. If a monitor top failed after the early 1940's the whole cabinet top would be replaced with an FEA unit. Some factory rebuilds of earlier models were also available. If by "coils" you are referring to the evaporator, that is only one portion of the whole refrigerating mechanism, and it would be completely uneconomical to retain that whilst replacing the rest of the unit. To start with, the new compressor would have to suit all the different types of evaporator used of wildly varying designs (something which is impractical); then the system would have to be evacuated, the new compressor plumbed in, and new refrigerant introduced - which may not be compatible with the evaporator in the first place (And if it was chosen to suit the evaporator it might not suit the compressor). Also the lubrication system has to be taken into account, and unlike modern fridges, the MT uses a flooded evaporator.
Everything in a refrigeration system is dependent on the individual components which are set up for specific operating conditions. If one of these is changed to something different the whole system is upset. As you can see from the various posts around the forum, to make such alterations successful has taken a lot of work and experimentation, and have not always been successful.
For this reason, if a quick fix couldn't be done in the home back in the day, the whole top was replaced.
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