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Post by ChrisJ on Aug 18, 2013 1:38:15 GMT
I'm hoping this thread may help others understand what different machines and cabinets there are. Please feel free to add and discuss as well.
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Post by ChrisJ on Aug 18, 2013 1:41:18 GMT
1933 7 cubic foot machine with porcelain cabinet. model CA-2-A1*. The last number in the model indicates either 50Hz or 60Hz so a 60Hz machine would be CA-2-A16. This was the first year for the use of methyl formate and the sheet metal enclosed style condenser. Has anyone seen a CA form A machine on a painted cabinet? Attachments:
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Post by cablehack on Aug 20, 2013 4:01:42 GMT
Just going by all the cooling unit and cabinet combinations from 1927-1942, there must be over a hundred types. However, one type I'd like to bring up is the FEA cooling unit. This is sometimes called a "Square Top", or is sometimes incorrectly thought of as one of the Flatops (which it actually bears no resemblance to). This cooling unit was a replacement for when the CK monitor tops were no long being rebuilt (that stopped in 1941/2). It appears to be a post war model given that the compressor is no longer the 1934-42 Scotch Yoke type, and there is little else to link it to that era. It is filled with Freon 12, and has a fan forced condenser. I do not know what the high side metering device is, but from photos I can't see any float valve. Being a replacement unit, one does not see any related advertising for the FEA.
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Post by ChrisJ on Aug 20, 2013 4:05:11 GMT
Is the FEA compressor non-hermetic? No headers on the evaporator and I see some kind of device mounted in line near the fan? Its not a service valve because I see that on the compressor. Attachments:
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Post by cablehack on Aug 20, 2013 4:17:09 GMT
I used to wonder that too, but if you look closely, near the fan area, you can just see a cable from the start relay running into the fan shroud which suggests a separate motor. Also, that service valve lookalike just under, is an oiling tube - the fan cooled Flatops have the same thing and requires to be filled with oil once a year. [I'll be able to show that once I've finished scanning the Flatop and Liftop sections of the manual - soon to appear].
It looks like there might be a capillary running into the condenser in the photo you've just posted- and the lack of header tanks would indicate an unflooded evaporator.
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Post by coldspaces on Aug 20, 2013 4:41:38 GMT
Looks like the predecessor to the compressor in my GE Spacemaker model ND-8-DB. It is round with fins.
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Post by jhigdon2 on Aug 20, 2013 4:52:29 GMT
I used to have one of these. It was the bigger unit for the two and 3 door models. It had twin evaps. 1 a little bigger than the other. It had receiver tanks on the evaps but much smaller tanks than s02 models. All the others that I have run across seem to work fine. It is rumored that these hardly ever quit. All of them I've seen have a cap tube and they are flooded. Mine worked very well on my 2 door cabinet and it was almost as quiet as a CK. You just could hear the sound of the tiny two bladed fan.
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Post by coldspaces on Aug 20, 2013 5:17:21 GMT
I realized I have seen that condensing unit before. I have a long time customer that has an old GE in his basement. It was his mom and dads and he did not know much about it except that they had bought it new and it had been running ever since as far as he could remember it has always been plugged in. I snapped some pics with the phone that day. It was pretty cool, I was there to replace the furnace blower motor and asked about checking the GE closer. He had never tried to take off the bottom cover. After I got it off he got a shop vac and we cleaned it up a bit. On the back of the cover in his dad's handwriting it said " Bought January 1947 $240.40" He had no idea that was there and enjoyed learning a little more about his GE. This one has evidently ran for 66 years and as far as he knows doesn't think his parents ever repaired it, must have been good. I told him if it ever gives him trouble call me I may be able to get it running again.
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Post by cablehack on Aug 20, 2013 5:31:22 GMT
That confirms it's a postwar replacement. It almost looks like they've taken the FCA unit, mounted it on a cabinet top with evaporator, and called it an FEA. I wonder what finally forced GE to use capillary tubes and Freon 12 in all models.
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Post by 35ckmonitort on Sept 5, 2013 16:49:28 GMT
Ah yes, the replacement top. I'm sure they're great and work well. I just can't stand the look of them my self. Every time I see one, it's an earlier cabinet from '27-'31 or so. I understand that most who owned monitor tops early on had reliable service up to the war and after the war. So, that's when the '37-'41-'42 CK tops were replacing dead DR units. And then after the war, they offered these modern R12 charged machines.
It's interesting, I posted the story about my friend's house he bought in the flickr group. How his friend who sold him the house grew up there in the 30s-50s. She remembered her Aunt and Uncle buying a new Monitor Top in 1935. Had to be a Ck, and they had it into 1951 or 52 when they finally traded it in for a new model. He still has the receipt from the trade in, it mentions a Monitor Top on it! He wanted to put a lot of things back into the house that originally were there... And about 90% of all that stuff was still in the house, and the garage and packing house! But, since the Monitor Top was traded in, it wasn't there. So, luckily a friend of his said her grandmother still had one... She GAVE him the fridge! Turned out to be a '35 CK. I posted photos of us putting it back together after he painted it. Lovely piece! I'd think most of the CK's continued to work and didn't need replacement tops. Heck, they're still running well today!
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Post by cablehack on Oct 9, 2013 3:00:49 GMT
Here's some Canadian monitor tops. First is the AK. Essentially it's the same as a CK, but the evaporator is more like the U.S. CA model. It appears they could get away with door racks by being outside the U.S. (Not infringing Crosley's patent), and also note the squarer shaped legs, and door latch similar to the DR. www.antiqueelectro.com/product.php?id_product=39Next is the Canadian version of the CA, which I think is the HA. Again, note the different legs and door latch. It also has door racks. www.antiqueelectro.com/product.php?id_product=50This Canadian equivalent to the CF also has door racks. It's worth having a look at the restoration process for this one - not often one sees the cooling unit outside of the cabinet with these. www.antiqueelectro.com/product.php?id_product=42There's a lot of interesting stuff on this site - it's worth having a look.
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Post by vintageguy on Apr 19, 2014 7:15:15 GMT
How do you tell the difference between a CA and a CK when you walk up to it? I can spot a DR because of the exposed condenser coils but have to look at an ID plate after that.
Is the foot pedal unique to the CA?
How come, if the CA was only made for a year or two it seems that they are mostly what is available today?
Maybe I have a mistaken impression but it seems that the most of the Monitor Top refrigerators available are methyl formate.
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Post by cablehack on Apr 19, 2014 9:40:25 GMT
How do you tell the difference between a CA and a CK when you walk up to it? I can spot a DR because of the exposed condenser coils but have to look at an ID plate after that. Is the foot pedal unique to the CA? How come, if the CA was only made for a year or two it seems that they are mostly what is available today? Maybe I have a mistaken impression but it seems that the most of the Monitor Top refrigerators available are methyl formate. First thing is to look at the top of the compressor. The CK (as does all its Scotch Yoke relatives) has a dimple at the top. The CA just has a smooth rounded top. If you can see the back of the fridge, the CA has the start relay on the back of the condenser. For the CK it's in between the fins at the back. The charge valve for the CA is in between the fins at the top, whereas the CK has it pointing out at 45 degrees just under the fins. There are also other subtle differences, such as the evaporator. However, a possible trap is with the first CK3's - they have the same shape dome, and relay on the condenser as the CA. But there was never a CA-3. Of course it's only the CA form B that looks like a CK. The CA form A is totally unique in appearance. The foot pedal was also carried over to the CK, so it's no indication as to model. It is also important to know that sometimes cooling units are not matched to their original cabinet. For example, you might see a CK cooling unit on an old DR cabinet. The cabinets actually have their own model number - which is the number used in sales brochures and advertising. For example what is advertised as an "X7" could have either a CA-2 or CK-2 cooling unit on top. As to why CA's appear to be common, they certainly are on this forum. That's because they are prone to certain faults which the average fridge technician does not understand. Thus, they are the most common model being disposed of as faulty. Once understood they are actually very easy to work on. The later 1935-42 models using SO2 or F12 are seldom faulty. While the CK and CA look similar, internally there are differences, and operating conditions are quite different. Only the CA types use methyl formate. All other General Electric models up until 1942 use SO2 with the exception of a few CF's and CK3 rebuilds which used Freon 12.
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Post by vintageguy on Apr 21, 2014 7:22:56 GMT
Thank you cablehack for the informative and articulate response. Armed with this information, my better half and I walked into a local appliance repair shop in Portland, OR which had a monitor top on the showroom floor for display purposes only.
As we walked up to it the salesperson said "I don't know much about it" and I responded from ten feet away, noticing the dimple on the compressor top "It's clearly a GE Monitor Top refrigerator Model CK with a Scotch Yoke compressor produced from 1935-1938 with SO2 refrigerant".
I had the upper hand in the conversation but the unit was not for sale. Apparently the owner had searched for four years to find a working Monitor Top in decent condition. It looked nice but hadn't been restored.
Still, I may have found a valuable ally in Monitor Top restorations in Portland,. OR. This guy must love them as much as we do. The vendor is Spencer's Appliances in Portland Or.
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Post by mannishboy on Aug 30, 2014 4:13:31 GMT
I have a DR1 form B ser # 1282326. To the best of my understanding it was but between 1929 and 1932. C I'm trying to determine a little more accurately which year. Would during if any here could help. TIA. I'll try to upload some pix.
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