|
|
Post by 428kid on Mar 16, 2023 14:15:47 GMT
Any one have the switch or control box that goes on the compressor of this machine ? It's marked c296695. Inside it is the wires for the fans and the contacts for the compressor.  |
|
|
|
Post by turbokinetic on Mar 16, 2023 14:30:53 GMT
Any one have the switch or control box that goes on the compressor of this machine ? It's marked c296695. Inside it is the wife's for the fans and the contacts for the compressor. I haven't seen that exact relay configuration. Could you give more details? Often the numbers are far less helpful than pictures of the rest of the system. I assume it's a start-relay for the compressor, which can be replaced with a more generic part; but we will have to know the specifications of the compressor to select one. |
|
|
|
Post by 428kid on Mar 16, 2023 15:59:47 GMT
Any one have the switch or control box that goes on the compressor of this machine ? It's marked c296695. Inside it is the wife's for the fans and the contacts for the compressor. I haven't seen that exact relay configuration. Could you give more details? Often the numbers are far less helpful than pictures of the rest of the system. I assume it's a start-relay for the compressor, which can be replaced with a more generic part; but we will have to know the specifications of the compressor to select one.   |
|
|
|
Post by turbokinetic on Mar 16, 2023 16:16:03 GMT
Oh yeah. That is the start relay and overload device. Looks like the return line sweated and dripped water in it over a period of time, too.
Do you know the horsepower rating of that compressor?
In general terms; if it is 1/4 HP or larger, you can replace that relay with a Supco RO41 start device. If it is smaller than 1/4 HP it will need an RO81 device.
If the compressor had a start capacitor in the circuit from the factory, you will need to use a RCO410 or RCO810 device, according to horsepower.
All of the Supco devices mentioned above contain a new overload circuit breaker and a starting device, to replace everything in that box.
A tip if you don't know and can't locate the compressor horsepower rating. Order BOTH an RO81 and an RO41. Install the RO81 (smaller one) and see if the compressor will stay running through an entire cycle until the thermostat turns it off. If the RO81 overload trips before the cycle completes, move up to the RO41 which allows more running current.
Sincerely,
David
|
|
|
|
Post by 428kid on Mar 16, 2023 16:40:08 GMT
Oh yeah. That is the start relay and overload device. Looks like the return line sweated and dripped water in it over a period of time, too. Do you know the horsepower rating of that compressor? In general terms; if it is 1/4 HP or larger, you can replace that relay with a Supco RO41 start device. If it is smaller than 1/4 HP it will need an RO81 device. If the compressor had a start capacitor in the circuit from the factory, you will need to use a RCO410 or RCO810 device, according to horsepower. All of the Supco devices mentioned above contain a new overload circuit breaker and a starting device, to replace everything in that box. A tip if you don't know and can't locate the compressor horsepower rating. Order BOTH an RO81 and an RO41. Install the RO81 (smaller one) and see if the compressor will stay running through an entire cycle until the thermostat turns it off. If the RO81 overload trips before the cycle completes, move up to the RO41 which allows more running current. Sincerely, David So I know very little about this stuff, I'm a body paint guy. This is in my shop and is the second one I've replaced in the last little bit. I had a local guy who says it was a 1/3 HP. But I don't know that. The tag on top is rusty and gone. Which one is the best to go with that will get it going? Having that said the local guy wants to put a compressor on it which I don't . Any help always appreciated. |
|
|
|
Post by ckfan on Mar 16, 2023 17:19:35 GMT
I would start with the RO81 like David suggested first since it had the smaller amperage rating for the overload and won’t risk damaging the compressor. If it keeps tripping, try the RO41.
|
|
|
|
Post by turbokinetic on Mar 16, 2023 18:13:09 GMT
Oh yeah. That is the start relay and overload device. ...... So I know very little about this stuff, I'm a body paint guy. This is in my shop and is the second one I've replaced in the last little bit. I had a local guy who has been very unhelpful say it was a 1/3 HP. But I don't know that. The tag on top is rusty and gone. Which one is the best to go with that will get it going? Having that said the local guy wants to put a compressor on it which I don't . Any help always appreciated. It's sad how unhelpful many "run of the mill" service people can be. He's probably correct about that compressor being around 1/3 HP since that appears to be a full-size Westinghouse soft drink vendor. That is a common size compressor for the full size upright vendors. I would start with the RO81 like David suggested first since it had the smaller amperage rating for the overload and won’t risk damaging the compressor. If it keeps tripping, try the RO41. Yes. The RO81 and RO41 devices are the same; other than the trip rating of the circuit breaker inside them. If you use too small a breaker, the breaker will trip unnecessarily and cause the compressor not to cool the cabinet since it won't run for long enough of a time. If the breaker is too large; it may not protect the compressor in event of an overload. Therefore, it's safest to start with the smaller one and move up if it doesn't work. These parts are less than $10 each so it's not a great cost to have both on hand. There is every indication that water got in the original relay and probably ruined it. That makes me feel as though the compressor is still good and the bad relay is the problem. The new RO device should get it going. There should be two wires from the rest of the cabinet which go to the compressor. Those are the power and neutral for the compressor and condenser fan. The new RO81 or RO41 device will have two black "power" input wires which connect to the factory original power wires. The condenser fan also connects to these, in parallel. The RO device has three output wires which will connect to the pins on the side of the compressor. |
|
|
|
Post by 428kid on Mar 16, 2023 18:17:36 GMT
So I know very little about this stuff, I'm a body paint guy. This is in my shop and is the second one I've replaced in the last little bit. I had a local guy who has been very unhelpful say it was a 1/3 HP. But I don't know that. The tag on top is rusty and gone. Which one is the best to go with that will get it going? Having that said the local guy wants to put a compressor on it which I don't . Any help always appreciated. It's sad how unhelpful many "run of the mill" service people can be. He's probably correct about that compressor being around 1/3 HP since that appears to be a full-size Westinghouse soft drink vendor. That is a common size compressor for the full size upright vendors. I would start with the RO81 like David suggested first since it had the smaller amperage rating for the overload and won’t risk damaging the compressor. If it keeps tripping, try the RO41. Yes. The RO81 and RO41 devices are the same; other than the trip rating of the circuit breaker inside them. If you use too small a breaker, the breaker will trip unnecessarily and cause the compressor not to cool the cabinet since it won't run for long enough of a time. If the breaker is too large; it may not protect the compressor in event of an overload. Therefore, it's safest to start with the smaller one and move up if it doesn't work. These parts are less than $10 each so it's not a great cost to have both on hand. There is every indication that water got in the original relay and probably ruined it. That makes me feel as though the compressor is still good and the bad relay is the problem. The new RO device should get it going. There should be two wires from the rest of the cabinet which go to the compressor. Those are the power and neutral for the compressor and condenser fan. The new RO81 or RO41 device will have two black "power" input wires which connect to the factory original power wires. The condenser fan also connects to these, in parallel. The RO device has three output wires which will connect to the pins on the side of the compressor. So there are the three wires for the power cord. Of those white and black and the ground . Then there are two wires going up in the top which are the upper fan wires and two more that are the lower fan wires. Will all those go together? Then there are two wires going to the temp sensor . Thanks for all the help guys! |
|
|
|
Post by 428kid on Mar 16, 2023 18:26:59 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by turbokinetic on Mar 16, 2023 18:43:19 GMT
It's sad how unhelpful many "run of the mill" service people can be. He's probably correct about that compressor being around 1/3 HP ... So there are the three wires for the power cord. Of those white and black and the ground . Then there are two wires going up in the top which are the upper fan wires and two more that are the lower fan wires. Will all those go together? Then there are two wires going to the temp sensor . Thanks for all the help guys! This diagram shows the most basic cooling system, with a thermostat, two fans, a Supco start device; and a compressor.  |
|
|
|
Post by turbokinetic on Mar 16, 2023 18:45:34 GMT
There are the three wires mentioned before for the cord . One set of wires to the lower fan. One for the upper fan. One set to the temp switch and the other two wires over to the control panel in the corner. I think the two wires going to the control panel are for electric coin-op vending. They should get power at all times when the machine is plugged in. The diagram I just posted doesn't have that on it; however it would simply tie in at the cord, where Live and Neutral branch out to the other parts. |
|
|
|
Post by 428kid on Mar 16, 2023 19:40:58 GMT
Pm sent.
|
|
|
|
Post by 428kid on Mar 20, 2023 23:26:07 GMT
So got the R081 today and wired it up as the diagram above shows. One side of the vending part going to one side of the power cord and one to the other. Fan comes on as it turns the compressor on. Runs for maybe 10 min or so and cuts off. Stays off for a bit and kicks back in . Line coming out of the compressor going to the evap coil is cold . Is that normal process? Can I leave it run over night with no issues to see if it's going to cool?
|
|
|
|
Post by turbokinetic on Mar 21, 2023 3:29:47 GMT
So got the R081 today and wired it up as the diagram above shows. One side of the vending part going to one side of the power cord and one to the other. Fan comes on as it turns the compressor on. Runs for maybe 10 min or so and cuts off. Stays off for a bit and kicks back in . Line coming out of the compressor going to the evap coil is cold . Is that normal process? Can I leave it run over night with no issues to see if it's going to cool? I'm sorry I was unable to talk on the phone today. Things got crazy. If it ran for 10 minutes without the evaporator fan in the cabinet running, it would have gotten cold enough to turn off the thermostat. |
|
|
|
Post by 428kid on Mar 21, 2023 17:16:35 GMT
So first off thank everyone for all the help on this. Got the R081 installed and it worked but shut off to early to cool like it should. Further looking resulted in noticing the evaporator fan wasn't working either after the short. So removed that . Went to try and get a new one with no luck , so went and pulled the one out of my old machine that stopped working last year. So , any way tested it and it works and is quite. So installed it all again , wired it up and so far knock on wood it's working and cooling. Thanks to all you guys!
|
|
