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Post by andrewo on Feb 3, 2021 23:24:02 GMT
Yes, you can give it 220 but for only very brief moments. Follow the instructions in the manual and it’s best to stay on the safe side. Remember, the motor is 86 years old. Thank you, I will try that.
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Post by turbokinetic on Feb 4, 2021 14:19:54 GMT
I just measured them with the switch on and the wires away from the relay, and I got the same numbers. I got nothing when checking each of the wires to ground. I have the manuel for CKs downloaded, though I have only skimmed through it. Do you think the wiring is the main issue? Thanks Andrew also, should I try the trick of giving the unit 220 volts for a second to un-stall the motor? I saw that in the manual and some other posts. Hi Andrew. I have a concern about your unit. Can you describe how hot it was when you found it stalled and buzzing the first time? I know that's hard but try. Was it like a hot cup of coffee, or more like a sizzling hot frying pan? Was the paint discolored on the top of the dome? Unfortunately, I have a concern about the viability of the compressor. Nobody really knows how long it was powered on, stalled, before you came home and found it. It's very likely that parts of the compressor have melted and fused together, causing the unit to be permanently frozen up. I don't like to jump to conclusions, but we need to be aware this is a very real, and likely, outcome of the incident which happened to the unit. Also if you repeat the ground fault test, the evaporator in the cabinet is going to be bare metal and is connected to the compressor housing by soldered tubing joints; so it's a good ground point for the meter probe. To be eliminate all possible external causes of the compressor not running, you really need to do some tests without the factory relay in the circuit. This will eliminate that part as a possible cause of the non-starting. Also you need to have a current meter in the circuit to know what is happening in the motor during testing. Do you have anything such as a Kill-A-Watt meter? The first test I would do, is to completely remove the relay, and tie together the motor's Run and Start circuits. Connect the power cord to the motor, with one side of the cord to the motor's common (black) wire and the other side of the cord to the Run and Start (tied together). Connect the cord to your current meter, and power it on. Only power it on for about 5 or 10 seconds maximum; even if it runs. It will overheat the motor if it runs with the start winding permanently connected, so you must only do this for a few seconds as a test of the motor's viability. If the motor DOES start, then you need to revisit the start relay; or just replace it with an aftermarket part. If it does not start, then you have definitely got a stuck compressor. it is possible to apply higher voltage (240V) to the motor, in an attempt to break it free. If the 'hotwired' test at 120V does not get the compressor to run, then it might be worth a try to energize it with 240V. If you do that, it is absolutely critical that the 240V power is only applied for 1 second at a time, with a rest / cooling period between tries. Do the same setup as with the 120V no-relay test. If you get it running with the 240V, repeat with 120 and see if the motor will run again at its normal voltage. The final and most important thing I need to say is this. Your control has a serious and very dangerous problem in that the overload breaker (obviously) failed to trip. You absolutely must install a working overload device into the system The Supco RO81 has been used on these quite a few times. It's got its limitations; however it will provide a start-relay and overload breaker in one convenient module. If you get your compressor going, you will have to install a working overload. Don't run the unit unattended until an overload in in place or it could very well happen again. Sincerely, David
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Post by andrewo on Feb 5, 2021 0:18:02 GMT
also, should I try the trick of giving the unit 220 volts for a second to un-stall the motor? I saw that in the manual and some other posts. Hi Andrew. I have a concern about your unit. Can you describe how hot it was when you found it stalled and buzzing the first time? I know that's hard but try. Was it like a hot cup of coffee, or more like a sizzling hot frying pan? Was the paint discolored on the top of the dome? Unfortunately, I have a concern about the viability of the compressor. Nobody really knows how long it was powered on, stalled, before you came home and found it. It's very likely that parts of the compressor have melted and fused together, causing the unit to be permanently frozen up. I don't like to jump to conclusions, but we need to be aware this is a very real, and likely, outcome of the incident which happened to the unit. Also if you repeat the ground fault test, the evaporator in the cabinet is going to be bare metal and is connected to the compressor housing by soldered tubing joints; so it's a good ground point for the meter probe. To be eliminate all possible external causes of the compressor not running, you really need to do some tests without the factory relay in the circuit. This will eliminate that part as a possible cause of the non-starting. Also you need to have a current meter in the circuit to know what is happening in the motor during testing. Do you have anything such as a Kill-A-Watt meter? The first test I would do, is to completely remove the relay, and tie together the motor's Run and Start circuits. Connect the power cord to the motor, with one side of the cord to the motor's common (black) wire and the other side of the cord to the Run and Start (tied together). Connect the cord to your current meter, and power it on. Only power it on for about 5 or 10 seconds maximum; even if it runs. It will overheat the motor if it runs with the start winding permanently connected, so you must only do this for a few seconds as a test of the motor's viability. If the motor DOES start, then you need to revisit the start relay; or just replace it with an aftermarket part. If it does not start, then you have definitely got a stuck compressor. it is possible to apply higher voltage (240V) to the motor, in an attempt to break it free. If the 'hotwired' test at 120V does not get the compressor to run, then it might be worth a try to energize it with 240V. If you do that, it is absolutely critical that the 240V power is only applied for 1 second at a time, with a rest / cooling period between tries. Do the same setup as with the 120V no-relay test. If you get it running with the 240V, repeat with 120 and see if the motor will run again at its normal voltage. The final and most important thing I need to say is this. Your control has a serious and very dangerous problem in that the overload breaker (obviously) failed to trip. You absolutely must install a working overload device into the system The Supco RO81 has been used on these quite a few times. It's got its limitations; however it will provide a start-relay and overload breaker in one convenient module. If you get your compressor going, you will have to install a working overload. Don't run the unit unattended until an overload in in place or it could very well happen again. Sincerely, David Thank you, I remember coming in to that noise you heard in the first video of me starting it, but much quieter than usual, like it was weaker (one thing to note is that the noise in the video was how it always sounded starting up, with that noise lasting only a second before the motor kicked on). When I felt the top it was hot, but not burning hot, just really warm (I could touch it). ere is what the top looks like now, and I remember it always being a bit dirty, so I am not sure if it got darker than it was after the incident. I do not have a kill-a-watt, but I do have a fluke meter capable of reading the amps of ac. I will try the 110 trick with connecting the wires and I will tell you how it goes. Ill also record the amps level I get.
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Post by andrewo on Feb 5, 2021 0:26:23 GMT
I tried it with 110 volts, and I got a reading of around 14.6 amps. The motor did not move at all.
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Post by turbokinetic on Feb 5, 2021 1:46:12 GMT
I tried it with 110 volts, and I got a reading of around 14.6 amps. The motor did not move at all. Hi Andrew. If you could still touch the top, it was likely not a total meltdown, but it still does not take all that much time at locked rotor conditions to damage the motor. It's still possible that a 240V kick could start it up, though. I don't think 14 amps locked-rotor is all that much out of line; although I haven't measured that directly.
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Post by andrewo on Feb 5, 2021 2:52:24 GMT
I tried it with 110 volts, and I got a reading of around 14.6 amps. The motor did not move at all. Hi Andrew. If you could still touch the top, it was likely not a total meltdown, but it still does not take all that much time at locked rotor conditions to damage the motor. It's still possible that a 240V kick could start it up, though. I don't think 14 amps locked-rotor is all that much out of line; although I haven't measured that directly. Hello! I tried running it with 240 volts, and other than a louder than usual buzzing, nothing moved (I did it only for a second). I'm assuming that there isn't much more I can do, but I really appreciate all of your guys' help on this! I was looking and saw that it is hard, but possible to access the motor and repair it. Is it not worth the potential work required?
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Post by turbokinetic on Feb 5, 2021 3:09:37 GMT
Hi Andrew. If you could still touch the top, it was likely not a total meltdown, but it still does not take all that much time at locked rotor conditions to damage the motor. It's still possible that a 240V kick could start it up, though. I don't think 14 amps locked-rotor is all that much out of line; although I haven't measured that directly. Hello! I tried running it with 240 volts, and other than a louder than usual buzzing, nothing moved (I did it only for a second). I'm assuming that there isn't much more I can do, but I really appreciate all of your guys' help on this! I was looking and saw that it is hard, but possible to access the motor and repair it. Is it not worth the potential work required? That's sad that even 240 would not budge it. But that just confirms what was pretty well already evident. You can definitely remove the compressor from the housing, as long as you are able to weld it back after repairs. The issue may be that the melted or damaged parts are not available from any source and are so specialized that they are nearly impossible to re-create. I recently did a teardown on one which had gone total meltdown until the winding was open-circuit. That one had solder melted and re-flowed; plastic parts buckled and warped, and the winding insulation was just mush. Literally, the only re-usable part was the compressor housing dome and base. Everything else was trash. The CK model fridges can often be located in poor condition for cheap. It would probably be easier to locate another CK and then repaint and restore the cooling unit to put on your cabinet.
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Post by andrewo on Feb 5, 2021 3:49:10 GMT
Hello! I tried running it with 240 volts, and other than a louder than usual buzzing, nothing moved (I did it only for a second). I'm assuming that there isn't much more I can do, but I really appreciate all of your guys' help on this! I was looking and saw that it is hard, but possible to access the motor and repair it. Is it not worth the potential work required? That's sad that even 240 would not budge it. But that just confirms what was pretty well already evident. You can definitely remove the compressor from the housing, as long as you are able to weld it back after repairs. The issue may be that the melted or damaged parts are not available from any source and are so specialized that they are nearly impossible to re-create. I recently did a teardown on one which had gone total meltdown until the winding was open-circuit. That one had solder melted and re-flowed; plastic parts buckled and warped, and the winding insulation was just mush. Literally, the only re-usable part was the compressor housing dome and base. Everything else was trash. The CK model fridges can often be located in poor condition for cheap. It would probably be easier to locate another CK and then repaint and restore the cooling unit to put on your cabinet. Thanks for the advice, I do have an interest in understanding these machines and may take a crack at repairing it. It doesn't help that I have grown an attachment to my fridge. I assume that similar models would potentially have the same compressor right? www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/742634656422517/?ref=search&referral_code=undefined here is one that looks to be maybe an LK? Do you think I could potentially use parts from something like that to repair mine?
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Post by turbokinetic on Feb 5, 2021 3:57:24 GMT
That's sad that even 240 would not budge it. But that just confirms what was pretty well already evident. You can definitely remove the compressor from the housing, as long as you are able to weld it back after repairs. The issue may be that the melted or damaged parts are not available from any source and are so specialized that they are nearly impossible to re-create. I recently did a teardown on one which had gone total meltdown until the winding was open-circuit. That one had solder melted and re-flowed; plastic parts buckled and warped, and the winding insulation was just mush. Literally, the only re-usable part was the compressor housing dome and base. Everything else was trash. The CK model fridges can often be located in poor condition for cheap. It would probably be easier to locate another CK and then repaint and restore the cooling unit to put on your cabinet. Thanks for the advice, I do have an interest in understanding these machines and may take a crack at repairing it. It doesn't help that I have grown an attachment to my fridge. I assume that similar models would potentially have the same compressor right? www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/742634656422517/?ref=search&referral_code=undefined here is one that looks to be maybe an LK? Do you think I could potentially use parts from something like that to repair mine? That Marketplace link is for a DR machine. It is horribly sad. Someone needs to save it from that abusive owner. Sadly, a DR machine has a totally different cooling unit from a CK. If you are going to try to get a compressor from another unit, it will need to have a model beginning with "CK-2-xxx" and it will be good. They have DR, CA and CK models which all have a round top unit. The CK has a round dimple in the center of the dome with no refrigerant lines coming out of the top. All the other types have a line coming out of the top.
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Post by andrewo on Feb 5, 2021 4:01:47 GMT
Thanks for the advice, I do have an interest in understanding these machines and may take a crack at repairing it. It doesn't help that I have grown an attachment to my fridge. I assume that similar models would potentially have the same compressor right? www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/742634656422517/?ref=search&referral_code=undefined here is one that looks to be maybe an LK? Do you think I could potentially use parts from something like that to repair mine? That Marketplace link is for a DR machine. It is horribly sad. Someone needs to save it from that abusive owner. Sadly, a DR machine has a totally different cooling unit from a CK. If you are going to try to get a compressor from another unit, it will need to have a model beginning with "CK-2-xxx" and it will be good. They have DR, CA and CK models which all have a round top unit. The CK has a round dimple in the center of the dome with no refrigerant lines coming out of the top. All the other types have a line coming out of the top. I see, thank you! If only I had enough space for another fridge......
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Post by coldspaces on Feb 5, 2021 4:22:36 GMT
When you had the power troubles did any lights get too bright? If so you lost the neutral wire to the house while both hot leads where still on. This will put more that 120 volts on some things in your house. Since it was working till the power issue I don't think its mechanically stuck. The windings may have turn to turn shorts.
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Post by andrewo on Feb 5, 2021 4:26:08 GMT
When you had the power troubles did any lights get too bright? If so you lost the neutral wire to the house while both hot leads where still on. This will put more that 120 volts on some things in your house. Since it was working till the power issue I don't think its mechanically stuck. The windings may have turn to turn shorts. No, it basically made the power weaker and weaker, down to a point where turning on a light or device anywhere in the house would greatly dim the lights anywhere else. It all started with all of the lights around and such seeming weaker than usual.
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Post by coldspaces on Feb 5, 2021 4:39:29 GMT
When you had the power troubles did any lights get too bright? If so you lost the neutral wire to the house while both hot leads where still on. This will put more that 120 volts on some things in your house. Since it was working till the power issue I don't think its mechanically stuck. The windings may have turn to turn shorts. No, it basically made the power weaker and weaker, down to a point where turning on a light or device anywhere in the house would greatly dim the lights anywhere else. It all started with all of the lights around and such seeming weaker than usual. You may have just been running on low voltage then. That still may have over heated windings too much.
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Post by andrewo on Feb 5, 2021 4:45:21 GMT
No, it basically made the power weaker and weaker, down to a point where turning on a light or device anywhere in the house would greatly dim the lights anywhere else. It all started with all of the lights around and such seeming weaker than usual. You may have just been running on low voltage then. That still may have over heated windings too much. I see, maybe that points to everything inside not being completely melted. On another note, I contacted the seller of that dr, and it is not for sale anymore. Hopefully that means someone saved it already!
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Post by andrewo on Feb 5, 2021 4:59:40 GMT
oh yeah, and one more thing, are there any good links for information on how to take apart a ck top? Thanks!
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