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Post by cablehack on Sept 1, 2021 23:27:05 GMT
My CA monitor top broke the line from the needlepoint valve and refrigerant was starting to leak out I tried to save it but ended up losing probably all of it so now I need to extract if there’s any in there to ensure it’s all gone because I’m going to put r11 in any ideas on how to put the R 11 in? R11 goes in the same way as methyl formate since it is also a liquid at atmospheric pressure. The system will need to be completely emptied of the remaining methyl formate which requires a vacuum pump. The method I have used to recover methyl formate, as previously described, can only extract about 65% because of using the fridge's own compressor. The system then should be flushed out a couple of times with nitrogen, brought down to a full vacuum, and then the R11 poured into the charge port via a funnel.
The funnel is filled with the refrigerant and then the charge port opened to suck it in. Obviously, the port needs to be closed before the funnel empties to prevent air getting in. Something to keep in mind is that R11 is not the same as methyl formate, so the charge weight might be different. Better to put in less than the specified amount and the gradually add more as required. It should be finalised by how far up the header tanks the frost line is. The charge level will be less critical with a machine that still uses its float valve.
I haven't used R11 or R123 in my fridges as I have a supply of methyl formate, but others have, so it would be worthwhile searching for their posts on the subject.
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Post by lampe208 on Sept 3, 2021 22:34:26 GMT
I have my guy coming over to do the vacum,, i doubt their is any left with the broken line.... however, you stated to pour the R11 in ? Can i just have hime attach his system with valves and put it in that way direct from the cylinider of r11.? Also this orange r11 says NOT to use this as refrigferant? ? but its pure r11?
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Post by cablehack on Sept 4, 2021 0:50:14 GMT
i doubt their is any left with the broken line Don't be so sure about that - the refrigerant is a liquid at atmospheric pressure, so until it eventually evaporates through the leak, there will be liquid methyl formate sitting at the bottom of the evaporator and in the bottom of the compressor. My CA-1 still had some left after several weeks, with the high side connection broken off at the evaporator. In fact, if the damage is after the float valve, as it usually is, it will take a while to lose all the methyl formate, since the valve is normally closed. Methyl Formate converts to a gas above 32 degrees C, so the warmer the location where the fridge has been stored since the damage, the faster the methyl formate will evaporate and leave the system.
I assume you have the Hermetic Kit with the adaptor to connect the vacuum pump. The charge valve connection is unique to General Electric.
I don't have any experience refilling a CA from a refrigerant cylinder via a hose. However, my expectation is that the R11 cylinder will have to be inverted to access the liquid content, and it will also have to be heated to drive the R11 out. It would be essentially the same procedure as that described in the service manual for adding methyl formate.
Not sure why your R11 may be unsuitable as a refrigerant. Are they saying not to use it simply because R11 is an old refrigerant like R12, (not politically correct to use), or is there some kind of contaminant in it? You certainly don't want any water content in it.
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Post by lampe208 on Sept 6, 2021 20:03:46 GMT
So I poured R11 in the charge port this morning.. it started cooling after i got about 1 pound in.... it acutually started frosting on the middle of the inside tray.....after putting some more in i let it run ... i even heard a 1 time sucking sound like something sealed shut inside... after some time the unit lost all the cooling and havent been able to get it to cool again.. I need some help...
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Post by coldspaces on Sept 7, 2021 1:34:18 GMT
If the R-11 said that it may have had nitrogen pressure added to it so it would have pressure to be used to flush systems. I think they used to do that. Might be you now have to much non condensable nitrogen and the float is staying shut, Not sure the nitrogen would mix with the R11 and stay mixed while poring it in or not.
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Post by cablehack on Sept 7, 2021 1:47:31 GMT
There's a lot of possibilities here. As there was apparently some damage to the float valve of this machine; what exactly was this, and how has it been repaired? Has the system been leak tested under pressure since the repair? How much R11 was actually added? It is critical and needs to be very slowly added to get the right amount, since the system takes time to react and stabilise. This is the kind of problem that can be very difficult to diagnose by remote control because of so many unknown variables. It's necessary to know a history of this machine to even begin to be able to help. Generally, sudden loss of frost will be because of a blockage; either in the float valve or the evaporator. This can be because of contaminants if the system has been left open to the atmosphere. It can also occur if too much oil settles in the evaporator - but seeing as yours is a freshly charged system which has been (or tried to) pull down to temperature for the first time, I doubt it will be that. What was the frost pattern as it started to lose frost? I don't know if it's possible that overfilling the system might prevent the float valve opening, but it's just something I'm wondering about - what coldspaces has just said above is also very pertinent.
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Post by lampe208 on Sept 25, 2021 1:02:02 GMT
Update,
I switched everything over to a cap system. 29 inches of cap tube .. pulled a vacum,, charged some r11 and it immediately started working however could not get more than 4 lines to frost on the bottom of the evaporator. I added more r11 ...added alot of it ....thinking it would rise the frost line.....nope...now im out of r11 and it will not cool at all.. no frost .....
I dont see any leaks..... i dont get it... please help.. i
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Post by redtangox on Sept 25, 2021 1:04:16 GMT
How much is ‘a lot of it’?
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Post by cablehack on Sept 26, 2021 0:42:02 GMT
Without knowing exactly what has been done; such as quantity of refrigerant added, and what the refrigerant contains, one can only guess. If it contains something else besides R11, it could be that the foreign substance is being released as the 'refrigerant' goes through its evaporation and condensing cycle, and the machine is effectively being clogged up with NCG's. Maybe a lengthy purge would help.
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Post by lampe208 on Sept 26, 2021 12:21:29 GMT
estimate 5 lbs... I put in. I did not pour it in though.. I drew it from the tank. I kept filling to get the frost to expand more... never got close to the tanks just a few lines maybe 4 on the bottom of the tray and part of the way (half) up the side before the tank. I did remove the theromstat to repair the knob, but then when i put the thermostat back in this started happening....so i bypassed the thermostat to get it to run and now no cool what soever.....the compressor is not under any load at all.
Thanks for the reply.
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Post by lampe208 on Sept 26, 2021 12:22:24 GMT
when i mean I drew it from the tank I mean with the gauge set i borrowed after a vacum was pulled.
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Post by lampe208 on Sept 26, 2021 20:53:38 GMT
So does this machine handle any other type of refrigerant 152 A or what do I need to put in this thing now that I’m out of our r11
CA2b16
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Post by cablehack on Sept 27, 2021 0:12:16 GMT
So does this machine handle any other type of refrigerant 152 A or what do I need to put in this thing now that I’m out of our r11 CA2b16 R123 is the modern replacement for R11. Dichloromethane which went under the name of "Carrene" for use in Grunow fridges is a likely possibility since it has very similar p/t characteristics to methyl formate, as does Isopentane (R601a). The latter two have not actually been tested in a CA that I'm aware of.
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Post by lampe208 on Sept 27, 2021 1:24:58 GMT
thank you
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Post by lampe208 on Sept 27, 2021 23:24:28 GMT
My CA monitor top broke the line from the needlepoint valve and refrigerant was starting to leak out I tried to save it but ended up losing probably all of it so now I need to extract if there’s any in there to ensure it’s all gone because I’m going to put r11 in any ideas on how to put the R 11 in? R11 goes in the same way as methyl formate since it is also a liquid at atmospheric pressure. The system will need to be completely emptied of the remaining methyl formate which requires a vacuum pump. The method I have used to recover methyl formate, as previously described, can only extract about 65% because of using the fridge's own compressor. The system then should be flushed out a couple of times with nitrogen, brought down to a full vacuum, and then the R11 poured into the charge port via a funnel.
The funnel is filled with the refrigerant and then the charge port opened to suck it in. Obviously, the port needs to be closed before the funnel empties to prevent air getting in. Something to keep in mind is that R11 is not the same as methyl formate, so the charge weight might be different. Better to put in less than the specified amount and the gradually add more as required. It should be finalised by how far up the header tanks the frost line is. The charge level will be less critical with a machine that still uses its float valve.
I haven't used R11 or R123 in my fridges as I have a supply of methyl formate, but others have, so it would be worthwhile searching for their posts on the subject.
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