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Post by 1940sjosh on Jul 23, 2019 23:11:07 GMT
Hello,
This is my first post. For a long while I've wanted a Monitor Top. All my appliances in the kitchen here range from early 30-40's. Pretty much the same with the rest of my house as well.
Recently I came across a CA 1 B16 (larger porcelaine cab) on one of those for sale apps. Seller is asking $400, thus far I got them down to $375. The seller says it works but hasent used it, but it worked when they bought it. Also says the previous owner "topped off the coolant" but has no idea what refrigerant was used. We have no idea the condition of the heater or wirin. The cab and all looks great from the pic. Looks to be original. No rust or dings inside and out.
What do you guys think?
My thought was check it out in person, ask to test the heater. Dead heater - offer 200 or walk.
Thanks guys,
Joshua
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Post by Travis on Jul 24, 2019 1:23:59 GMT
Value is entirely dependent on location and your desire for it. If the unit is a CA1B, then it would be on a 4.7 cu ft cabinet. The 7 cu ft cabinets use the CA2’s.
The heater will most likely be dead. It should run and cool, but be rattle without the heater.
Good luck
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Post by elec573 on Jul 24, 2019 3:19:37 GMT
Just to add but don’t want to discourage you from buying.
The cas usually have a build up of non condescending gases .
You we’ll need to bleed these off , not hard but something else you might have to do .
New wiring and at least door gasket
As far as topping off the refrigerant it’s methane formate , it’s listed on the manufacturer tag on the back left of the fridge.
Its hard to get , and needs special license to be able to buy.
Also check the heater (look in the ck section to see how ) it’s not hard but it’s something else you we’ll need to buy if it doesn’t work.
The best thing I can tell you is to read various parts on the ca section it’s totally free and we’ll make you informed . You can go in armed with a shot gun versus a
BB gun .
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Post by 1940sjosh on Jul 24, 2019 3:56:18 GMT
Thank you guys.
I've read over quite a bit of this forum, well aware of the many projects. My last big project was a Brunswick Radiola, wasnt fun. Wiring was very messy and complicated.
So with this unit I'm looking at, heres what I'm trying to get a consensus on. The seller knows nothing about the unit. I'm very leery of buying a bit of a mystery. How can I tell it's been filled with MF? That's to say, how do I know if this not filled with another redlrefridgerant? Is a "functioning" unrestored unit worth $375 in this scenario?
Also how much do heaters go for?
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Post by Travis on Jul 24, 2019 6:55:11 GMT
Josh,
There are very few refrigerants that can replace Methyl Formate. I would suspect is hasn't been refilled or topped off. The unit simply won't work right with commonly available gases.
The value is in the condition of the cabinet and shelves. All these units need work, unless they've already been restored. Even then, most need more work.
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Post by cablehack on Jul 24, 2019 14:06:16 GMT
Words like "coolant" infer a complete lack of knowledge about refrigeration, so whatever has been said about the fridge should be taken with some scepticism. The introduction of any modern domestic refrigerant into it would probably cause the compressor to stall. The CA operates unlike any other domestic fridge, except for the Grunow of the same era. I just wonder if the seller was confused with someone purging the NCG's - but then how many in the modern day would know how to do that? If it runs and cools, it's a very likely assumption that it has Methyl Formate inside.
I have an original heater operating in my CA-1, but from what is said in the various CA and DR postings, it seems that's a rarity.
If you work for an educational or scientific institution, Methyl Formate can be purchased from Sigma Aldrich. Otherwise, R11 or R123 can be used. Provided the system has remain sealed it should not be necessary to add refrigerant, unless it has been purged incorrectly. Having said that, if you were to use R11 or R123, all the remaining MF would have to be vacuumed out first.
My refrigeration has been exclusively by CA's for the past few years. They work well, but it's necessary to understand their quirks. Along with a possibility of the heater needing replacement, the cabinet top will need rewiring (the rubber insulation breaks off soon as the wires are moved), and more than likely it will need the non condensable gases purged. The other thing to keep in mind with CA's is the possibility of wear in the needle and seat (part of the float valve). Cycling times will be poor if this is worn, since the evaporator will not get down to a cold enough temperature. This can be dealt with by installing a capillary tube and filter.
I paid $120-$150 for my damaged CA's. $375 is pushing it a bit, although if the cabinet was immaculate and the system was still sealed and the compressor runs, it could be justified.
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Post by 1940sjosh on Jul 24, 2019 15:26:34 GMT
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Post by ChrisJ on Jul 24, 2019 15:51:21 GMT
Words like "coolant" infer a complete lack of knowledge about refrigeration, so whatever has been said about the fridge should be taken with some scepticism. The introduction of any modern domestic refrigerant into it would probably cause the compressor to stall. The CA operates unlike any other domestic fridge, except for the Grunow of the same era. I just wonder if the seller was confused with someone purging the NCG's - but then how many in the modern day would know how to do that? If it runs and cools, it's a very likely assumption that it has Methyl Formate inside. I have an original heater operating in my CA-1, but from what is said in the various CA and DR postings, it seems that's a rarity. If you work for an educational or scientific institution, Methyl Formate can be purchased from Sigma Aldrich. Otherwise, R11 or R123 can be used. Provided the system has remain sealed it should not be necessary to add refrigerant, unless it has been purged incorrectly. Having said that, if you were to use R11 or R123, all the remaining MF would have to be vacuumed out first. My refrigeration has been exclusively by CA's for the past few years. They work well, but it's necessary to understand their quirks. Along with a possibility of the heater needing replacement, the cabinet top will need rewiring (the rubber insulation breaks off soon as the wires are moved), and more than likely it will need the non condensable gases purged. The other thing to keep in mind with CA's is the possibility of wear in the needle and seat (part of the float valve). Cycling times will be poor if this is worn, since the evaporator will not get down to a cold enough temperature. This can be dealt with by installing a capillary tube and filter. I paid $120-$150 for my damaged CA's. $375 is pushing it a bit, although if the cabinet was immaculate and the system was still sealed and the compressor runs, it could be justified. I thought a few had problems getting methyl formate from Sigma Aldrich later on? Has that changed? |
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Post by Travis on Jul 24, 2019 17:09:51 GMT
Josh,
That’s a nice looking 1933 CA2A on a porcelain 7 cu ft cabinet. It looks like the shelves have been powder coated blue. Unless it runs right, $375 is a little high. This would depend on location. You won’t get deals in CA or NYC generally.
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Post by 1940sjosh on Jul 24, 2019 17:57:14 GMT
It's funny you should say that, I live in Ca. Why is that?
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Post by Travis on Jul 24, 2019 19:12:17 GMT
It’s been my experience that many in CA and in NYC have inflated views on the value of their vintage things. It’s likely partially due to these items being less available in CA and part an inflated view of value based on local economy.
It’s also harder to repair vintage things in CA because of environmental laws and general hysteria from the environmental minded people. I’m sure chrome plating is expensive out there.
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Post by cablehack on Jul 24, 2019 23:57:53 GMT
I thought a few had problems getting methyl formate from Sigma Aldrich later on? Has that changed? Last time I bought some was a bit over two years ago. There was no difficulty in doing so, but I was working for an approved organisation. |
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Post by elec573 on Jul 25, 2019 1:38:23 GMT
It does look in nice shape,don’t understand the blue shelf’s .
I would agree with Travis on the price because of location.
But the environment in CA. is easer on them and keeps them from rusting .
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Post by 1940sjosh on Jul 25, 2019 14:18:34 GMT
Travis,
Everyone out here thinks they got gold; fact of the matter is I haven't seen anything worth half an asking price in an antique store in years.
All,
Waiting to hear back from the seller. I ask if we could plug her in and check for operation. Seller seems apprehensive or just clueless. Back story on their reason for having it is the wife wanted a vintage kitchen, fridge was just for looks. Wife changed mind now they are selling the fridge and a late 30s stove.
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Post by Travis on Jul 25, 2019 16:58:55 GMT
Josh,
Thanks for that comment. I got a good laugh.
I would be very leery of a seller that won’t let you try to power it up. I’ve dealt with this a few times myself and have made two offers. One being not working and a higher offer as working. Based on the condition I would say $150-200 if it was in my area. Seldom do you find a bad motor, but frequently the float is worn on a CA.
I don’t know what values are like in California, but I’d be inclined to say $250-300.
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