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Post by ckfan on Aug 20, 2019 14:46:59 GMT
That note is very cool. It almost looks like it says they replaced the conditioner which is the heater. So it may have a working heater. Best to check and make sure though.
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Post by 1940sjosh on Aug 20, 2019 20:25:10 GMT
Thank you guys. I followed the manual, only difference I waited 3 or so min between purges.
The unit is frosting up right now, so far were above half way up the right side tank. Float valve is just a bit warmer than air temp. Dome is pretty warm but I can touch and rest my hand there.
All in all I feel pretty accomplished.
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Post by 1940sjosh on Aug 20, 2019 20:26:23 GMT
That note is very cool. It almost looks like it says they replaced the conditioner which is the heater. So it may have a working heater. Best to check and make sure though. Heater was tested, it works.
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Post by turbokinetic on Aug 20, 2019 21:41:50 GMT
Thank you guys. I followed the manual, only difference I waited 3 or so min between purges. The unit is frosting up right now, so far were above half way up the right side tank. Float valve is just a bit warmer than air temp. Dome is pretty warm but I can touch and rest my hand there. All in all I feel pretty accomplished. Great! Love it when things work out.
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Post by coldspaces on Aug 20, 2019 21:48:11 GMT
Good to hear you are having positive results. That note was interesting too see, thanks for posting.
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Post by cablehack on Aug 21, 2019 1:41:22 GMT
Sounds like all went well with the purging. It's quite in order to wait longer than one minute between purges; if anything it might be more effective. The fact that it now frosts up to the header tank indicates the refrigerant charge is sufficient. Provided the needle and seat are in reasonable condition, I would expect an improvement in cycling times.
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Post by 1940sjosh on Aug 22, 2019 2:53:45 GMT
Well looks like theres been a problem. Woke up and checked all the temps this morning. Cab temp was 42. Frost line was about where it was pre purge. Not able to check the heater right now but I'm leaning on it being the problem.
Is it possible I might have displaced NCG's and that it needs more bleeding? Didnt smell anything like what MF has been described as.
Lastly, is there a difference between the Phenix heater over the Nordic? Price wise the Nordic was quoted at $100 and the Phenix is only $40.
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Post by birkie on Aug 22, 2019 11:11:58 GMT
Well looks like theres been a problem. Woke up and checked all the temps this morning. Cab temp was 42. Frost line was about where it was pre purge. Not able to check the heater right now but I'm leaning on it being the problem. Is it possible I might have displaced NCG's and that it needs more bleeding? Didnt smell anything like what MF has been described as. Lastly, is there a difference between the Phenix heater over the Nordic? Price wise the Nordic was quoted at $100 and the Phenix is only $40. Some folks here have been impressed with phoenix, so I don't think it'd make a big difference. The basic construction should be pretty much the same. As far as the NCGs, they move slowly through the system so it's possible another purge is needed. It might be wise to get the heater replaced if it is bad before proceeding with much else, though, as it's fairly important to the overall machine operation
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Post by turbokinetic on Aug 22, 2019 13:16:10 GMT
Well looks like theres been a problem. Woke up and checked all the temps this morning. Cab temp was 42. Frost line was about where it was pre purge. Not able to check the heater right now but I'm leaning on it being the problem. Is it possible I might have displaced NCG's and that it needs more bleeding? Didnt smell anything like what MF has been described as. Lastly, is there a difference between the Phenix heater over the Nordic? Price wise the Nordic was quoted at $100 and the Phenix is only $40. Uh-oh!
One thing you need to keep in mind with the frost line, is that it will change with heat loading on the machine. A bad heater will certainly lower the frost line because more refrigerant will be trapped in the base of the compressor instead of in the evaporator. By a similar mechanism, low loading on the machine will reduce the temperature of the compressor and condenser, leading to more refrigerant lingering in the high pressure side. This seems to affect all flooded evaporator machines, even the venerable CK; and even non-GE models like the Frigidaire Meter-Miser units. So what I'm saying is, while the unit is given a lot of extra heat loading for the purge process, there will be a higher frost line. Then it will lower down somewhat as things stabilize.
As for the cabinet temperature, if 42 is higher than expected, yet the machine is cycling off as normal - then the control is just not adjusted cold enough, or there's a door gasket issue or the door was opened too much. The only time this would be very worrisome is if the machine didn't ever shut off, running constantly without reaching temperature.
As for the heaters, my first ones were from Nordic. They were from Canada and as such, cost a premium due to exchange rate and paying tax twice (sales tax and customs tax). Later, Paul did a group buy of heaters from Phoenix. I have been able to compare then side by side and they appear to have been made on similar equipment. These heaters are machine made, from tubing which is stuffed with the components of the heater, and then sealed. The system then etches the manufacturer's name and rating on the outside. I would wager that the Phoenix and Nordic possibly both use the same model of heater manufacturing machine because the heaters appear identical, even down to the scripting etched in the housing.
The heater is ULTRA easy to test. Simply turn the refrigerator control to OFF. Unplug the fridge and measure the resistance across the cord. If you see around 1000Ω or so, it's working. Seeing more than 1200Ω or so, I would feel as if the resistance element in the heater is becoming thinned out by oxidation and is nearing the end of its life. It seems most failed heaters read in the 10's of KΩ or in the MΩ range.
Sincerely, David
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Post by 1940sjosh on Sept 4, 2019 2:55:56 GMT
Update Waiting on my heater right now. It was testing at 15.8 on the 20m setting. Way over 10000.
So looking in the rear port, what's the best way to pull the old heater? Looks like I might as well rewire.
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Post by ckfan on Sept 4, 2019 16:12:28 GMT
You’ll just need to take some needle nose pliers and hope that the old heater comes out without too much trouble. Sometimes they are really stuck and you have to drill them out carefully. If the wiring going to the heater is in good shape (cloth insulation like mine had) you may not have to re wire it. If it looks crunchy (rubber) you will have to re wire it. Look in the CK section for a guide on how to do that. It will be very similar.
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Post by turbokinetic on Sept 5, 2019 12:07:00 GMT
Update Waiting on my heater right now. It was testing at 15.8 on the 20m setting. Way over 10000. So looking in the rear port, what's the best way to pull the old heater? Looks like I might as well rewire. Hopefully the heater comes out without issue. If not, it can be a pain to get them out. I had one which was awful. The wires broke off, and there was nothing to pull the heater out with. After trying several approaches, the most successful method was to keep chipping away at the heater with a star drill chisel. and then air blowing the chips out. I believe a 3/8" chisel is what I had on hand. The method which was finally successful was to tap the chisel with a hammer two or three times, then blow the chips out with a long-tip air blower on the hose. Repeated until all of the heater was gone.
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Post by 1940sjosh on Sept 15, 2019 7:57:10 GMT
Still waiting on my heater. An interesting question came to mind tho.last time I purged the frost line came up, stayed at halfway up the tank. The float chamber was warm. All seemed in order.welp i let the unit stabilize and the frost line dropped, resting about 1in from the tank. Float dosent seem to get all that warm under w regular cycle. Pretty much what I got after the 1st purge, except the right tank seems like it wants to frost but cant.
So 1. Can the heater make that much a difference? 2. Is this any indication of a low refridgerant charge?
Also, my setting 9 doesn't stay continuously running. I saw a short bit in the manual regarding setting the temp dial but cant seem to know to exactly do it
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Post by ckfan on Sept 15, 2019 12:34:20 GMT
The frost line rises when more of a load is put on the unit. Purging it definitely puts more load on the unit. The frost line will drop when the unit has a dead heater as well. I wouldn’t run the unit without a working heater. The reason the frost line is lower is because more of the liquid refrigerant is in the sump of the compressor where it will wash oil off the bearings and cause excess wear. I suspect that is why a lot of these CAs lock up.
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Post by turbokinetic on Sept 15, 2019 13:49:32 GMT
Still waiting on my heater. An interesting question came to mind tho.last time I purged the frost line came up, stayed at halfway up the tank. The float chamber was warm. All seemed in order.welp i let the unit stabilize and the frost line dropped, resting about 1in from the tank. Float dosent seem to get all that warm under w regular cycle. Pretty much what I got after the 1st purge, except the right tank seems like it wants to frost but cant. So 1. Can the heater make that much a difference? 2. Is this any indication of a low refridgerant charge? Also, my setting 9 doesn't stay continuously running. I saw a short bit in the manual regarding setting the temp dial but cant seem to know to exactly do it I would say the heater being inoperative, especially without the extra load put on the unit to facilitate purging, would definitely result in a low frost line. The frost line rises when more of a load is put on the unit. Purging it definitely puts more load on the unit. The frost line will drop when the unit has a dead heater as well. I wouldn’t run the unit without a working heater. The reason the frost line is lower is because more of the liquid refrigerant is in the sump of the compressor where it will wash oil off the bearings and cause excess wear. I suspect that is why a lot of these CAs lock up. Definitely agree... It's really hard on it to run it without a good heater. I'm sure it will cause extra wear and tear on the unit. I believe the locked-up ones are a combination of no heater and extreme NCG pressure together.
About the constant running on position "9" of the dial; is it supposed to run constantly in that setting?
If it's really out of adjustment; you can adjust it. There is a cap in the center of the temperature knob. The cap probably looks like a colored pointer or maybe just a black cap. Underneath this is a screw which retains the knob. NOTE WELL this screw is electrically live when the unit is plugged in! After unplugging the unit, set the control to "9" and then remove the screw. Take the knob straight off without turning the control shaft. Re-install the knob with the pointer indicating position "8" instead of "9." This will have shifted the setting one "position" colder.
The manual shows the correct evaporator temperatures for the settings, so you might want to reference this before considering the control is bad.
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