|
|
Post by scooter76 on Nov 7, 2013 15:56:52 GMT
Hello...I'm new to the forum and have enjoyed reading all the great info here on the CA machines. I recently aquired a CA Form B machine with a bad "oil conditioner". As suggested elsewhere, I've attempted to contact Ben Midulla at ATS to obtain some of the 12W, 120V heaters (#20902), but emails go unanswered, as well as three separate voice mails. I'm assuming they're out of business.
Has anyone had any luck sourcing them elsewhere? I tried NSI (Nordic Sensors, dba "cartridge-heaters-online.com") and, although they were very helpful and could spec the correct dimensions (12mm x 64mm), the lowest wattage they could do in that size is 25W. They claim the resistance wire is just too fragile to go any finer. Really not keen on running this thing hotter than what GE engineers originally specified. I know I could make my own out of a pair of resistors, but would prefer something OEM for safety purposes. Ideas?
|
|
|
|
Post by ChrisJ on Nov 7, 2013 16:01:10 GMT
Hi Scooter and welcome to the forum! I guess that explains why Nordic ignored my quote request. The company listed at the end of the heater thread did respond to questions and claim they can make a 15W heater no problem. I am using 12W heaters but feel a 15W will be slightly better. Please visit this thread and scroll all the way down for the info. monitortop.freeforums.net/thread/6/new-heaters-ca-dr-machines |
|
|
|
Post by scooter76 on Nov 7, 2013 22:52:44 GMT
Great! Thanks for the reply. I will attempt to order a couple from this source and let everyone know the outcome. Thanks again!
|
|
|
|
Post by scooter76 on Jan 3, 2014 18:27:57 GMT
Hello again all, and Happy New Year. Sorry for the delay, but wanted to update everyone on this thread. Per recommendation from Chris, I contacted www.cartridge-heater.com and sourced a couple 12mm x 2.5" 12W heaters for my CA Form B (one for install and one for a spare). They arrived quickly and were exactly as I specified. If anyone is looking for a good, reliable source for these, this is your place. Although I'm thinking 12W should be providing sufficient heat (it becomes uncomfortable to hold in bare hand after about 1 min of heating), my machine is still exhibiting an odd behavior that seems to be oil related. It has excellent cycle times (around 2.5 mins on / 14-15 mins off), but is pretty noisy for about the first 1/2 of the "on" time. After about a minute, you can clearly tell that it starts to obtain sufficient oil supply and quiets right down. However, frost line isn't great (left side fully frosted most of the way up the tank - right side frost line is about midway between top shelf and lower edge of tank). This is with thermostat set at "5", cabinet temp is right around 32-33 degrees. Interestingly, if I temporarily turn the thermostat to "9", the longer run times raise the frost line almost all the way up the right side tank, and also cause it to run quietly through the whole cycle - beginning to end. After allowing it to run this way for several hours and then turning it back to "5" it will also continue to run very quietly for the entire cycle for several hours (if not all day) before eventually starting to get noisy again at startup. Thoughts? I'm thinking for some reason that the crankcase is being starved of oil and it's accumulating in the evap. Temporarily turning it up to "9" seems to raise the liquid level to the point that it is able to pull some oil back into the crankcase again? It's not obnoxiously loud during the noisy period, but doesn't seem good to me to starve it of oil if it can be remedied. |
|
|
|
Post by coldspaces on Jan 3, 2014 22:58:21 GMT
Is your machine in a cold ambient? More than 12 watts could possibly be needed if so. Do you think the noise is going away due to running causing the oil to warm up? If not it may oil logging evap as you suggest.
|
|
|
|
Post by allan on Jan 4, 2014 1:51:55 GMT
My CA is now quiter and better than ever before. Even after a cap tube conversion, and various heaters up to 50 watts I still had erratic right tank frost lines and a noisy compressor. Then I filled the freezer with the most and biggest ice trays I could fit in it. Now works and sounds great. Hope this helps
|
|
|
|
Post by ChrisJ on Jan 4, 2014 5:26:36 GMT
My CA is now quiter and better than ever before. Even after a cap tube conversion, and various heaters up to 50 watts I still had erratic right tank frost lines and a noisy compressor. Then I filled the freezer with the most and biggest ice trays I could fit in it. Now works and sounds great. Hope this helps Allan, Did it remain quiet even after removing the trays or does it need the mass to remain? Scooter76, I'm glad to hear this supplier worked out for you! |
|
|
|
Post by scooter76 on Jan 4, 2014 18:15:49 GMT
Thanks for the suggestions. Machine is running in kitchen, which is constant 64 degrees. I don't think oil temp is the issue. As mentioned, it's only noisy for the first minute or so of cycle. I doubt the oil temp rises enough in one minute to appreciably change its viscosity.
Allan - I can definitely see where increased load from ice trays would change things during the initial freezing of the water, but not quite understanding , once frozen, how having trays of ice sitting on the evap would make any difference?
|
|
|
|
Post by allan on Jan 5, 2014 0:15:04 GMT
Have not removed ice trays for about 2 months now because it has made the unit work so much better! I have removed the ice trays and refilled a couple of times and the machine sounds its best when you refill the trays and it is pulling the temp down. I also make sure the bottom of the tray is wet so it freezes solid to the evaporator. I think the extra mass of the ice provides more surface area to the evaporator and also creates a flywheel effect like the double wall DR evaporators that have a 45 minute off cycle!!
|
|
|
|
Post by cablehack on Jan 5, 2014 9:05:04 GMT
Sounds like NCG's. Rattling noise for the first part of the run cycle which goes away completely when you run the machine colder is a classic symptom. Unfortunately, running it colder to keep it quiet is only a temporary "cure". The noise will soon come back. Thanks for the cycling times BTW...always curious to know what others are getting.
|
|
|
|
Post by scooter76 on Jan 6, 2014 18:42:18 GMT
Hmm...OK. Good to know. Wonder if I should try to purge, or leave it alone for now given the sufficient cooling and good run times. I tend to subscribe to the "if it ain't broke..." school of thought. That is if I knew that the slight rattle isn't doing detrimental damage.
On that note, what are your thoughts on why they act this way when NCG's have accumulated in the float chamber? I would almost think the opposite would be true - that compressor head pressure would build and rattling would be more evident towards the END of cycle.
|
|
|
|
Post by cablehack on Jan 7, 2014 7:01:18 GMT
You'll have to purge it sometime as it will only get worse - but see how long you can get away with it if you like.
There was something in the manual which I read about this, which gave me the idea of running it colder to quieten it. (I only got a few days out of it before the rattle started again). Basically, when the evaporator is cooler it requires less effort to keep it at that temperature. At the start of the cycle when it's somewhat warmer, it needs more refrigerant flow. You can actually see this with a power meter. It will start off at say 180W but will drop down to 170W.
|
|
|
|
Post by scooter76 on Jan 8, 2014 0:36:28 GMT
Cablehack, I fully agree after thinking through your explanation. I've noticed over the last several days, the frost is slowly disappearing from the right side of the evap - now down about 2/3 and the noise seems worse. I've temporarily turned it up to "7", but I think you have me convinced to purge it.
In your experience, any recommendations for a first timer? I've read through the process in the GE version of the manual and seems straightforward enough. Are ice trays or bread pans full if hot water sufficient to heat the evap? My initial plan would be to shut down, defrost, then attempt to heat as described in the book and go from there with the three on / one off procedure.
Also, assume since I'm not adding any refrigerant, I don't need a full adapter kit - just a six pointed Bristol Key for the aux screw? Can these be found easily? What type of head is on the actual purge screw? Just some light (ie Zoom Spout turbine) oil or similar in the port? Teflon tape on the secondary screw for good measure when done?
Thanks in advance for your help!
|
|
powerglide
5 Cubic Foot
slowly, but surely ...atleast so far...
Posts: 83 
|
Post by powerglide on Jan 8, 2014 2:28:31 GMT
Hello again all, and Happy New Year. Sorry for the delay, but wanted to update everyone on this thread. Per recommendation from Chris, I contacted www.cartridge-heater.com and sourced a couple 12mm x 2.5" 12W heaters for my CA Form B (one for install and one for a spare). They arrived quickly and were exactly as I specified. If anyone is looking for a good, reliable source for these, this is your place. Although I'm thinking 12W should be providing sufficient heat (it becomes uncomfortable to hold in bare hand after about 1 min of heating), my machine is still exhibiting an odd behavior that seems to be oil related. It has excellent cycle times (around 2.5 mins on / 14-15 mins off), but is pretty noisy for about the first 1/2 of the "on" time. After about a minute, you can clearly tell that it starts to obtain sufficient oil supply and quiets right down. However, frost line isn't great (left side fully frosted most of the way up the tank - right side frost line is about midway between top shelf and lower edge of tank). This is with thermostat set at "5", cabinet temp is right around 32-33 degrees. Interestingly, if I temporarily turn the thermostat to "9", the longer run times raise the frost line almost all the way up the right side tank, and also cause it to run quietly through the whole cycle - beginning to end. After allowing it to run this way for several hours and then turning it back to "5" it will also continue to run very quietly for the entire cycle for several hours (if not all day) before eventually starting to get noisy again at startup. Thoughts? I'm thinking for some reason that the crankcase is being starved of oil and it's accumulating in the evap. Temporarily turning it up to "9" seems to raise the liquid level to the point that it is able to pull some oil back into the crankcase again? It's not obnoxiously loud during the noisy period, but doesn't seem good to me to starve it of oil if it can be remedied. So, was the price reasonable and the shipping? Fast Service?. |
|
|
|
Post by cablehack on Jan 8, 2014 8:32:20 GMT
Cablehack, I fully agree after thinking through your explanation. I've noticed over the last several days, the frost is slowly disappearing from the right side of the evap - now down about 2/3 and the noise seems worse. I've temporarily turned it up to "7", but I think you have me convinced to purge it. In your experience, any recommendations for a first timer? I've read through the process in the GE version of the manual and seems straightforward enough. Are ice trays or bread pans full if hot water sufficient to heat the evap? My initial plan would be to shut down, defrost, then attempt to heat as described in the book and go from there with the three on / one off procedure. Also, assume since I'm not adding any refrigerant, I don't need a full adapter kit - just a six pointed Bristol Key for the aux screw? Can these be found easily? What type of head is on the actual purge screw? Just some light (ie Zoom Spout turbine) oil or similar in the port? Teflon tape on the secondary screw for good measure when done? Thanks in advance for your help! It really is as straightforward as the manual; you'll soon find the process second nature. To start with, you'll need the Bristol key. monitortop.freeforums.net/thread/181/bristol-key-charge-valveYou don't need the charge valve adaptor as you're only purging to the atmosphere. But if you have ideas of doing more sophisticated work later on, then keep a look out for the hermetic kits on ebay. You should be able to get them for around $20, but make sure it has the GE spline keys before purchasing. Any light mineral oil is suitable - I use sewing machine oil, but when that runs out I'll just use refrigeration or vacuum pump oil. There's no harm in using Teflon tape if you wish, but from my domestic plumbing experience, it doesn't seal very well unless the threads are tapered - which they're not in the GE charge valve. Also, when you next unscrew the secondary screw, you'll need to pick all the shreds out with tweezers. I used to use it but no longer do so. To test for leaks, I simply leave the oil in the charge valve for a day and if the level hasn't gone down and there's no bubbles, then I assume all is good. Don't be confused by bubbling caused by methyl formate reacting with the oil. You can tell when this is happening because the bubbles appear to come from the centre of the screw, and not around the edges. Hot water in a pan will do the job. I just place a small saucepan of hot water, on the evaporator shelf. You should find it more effective if you start with the fridge at room temperature as it will have to work harder - and thus give more of a positive pressure in the float chamber. However, I have done it with the evaporator and cabinet still cold. Simply run the compressor and wait for the condenser to warm up. You might need to turn the control to 9 so it runs continuously. Then, test for positive pressure. If none, wait a bit longer. You might have to refill the pan with hot water again. There won't be any high pressure spurt when you crack open the valve, just a gentle bubbling. Or, the oil will slowly suck in if it's still in a vacuum. Don't panic if you've accidentally let air in...the purging will expel it. |
|
