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Post by ajc31980 on Sept 23, 2018 21:53:15 GMT
Hi everyone! Sorry for the delayed reply I ended up having company yesterday that pulled me away from my project for a wile. Ended up being out of the house all day and most of the night. I had chance to glance through the comments a little wile I was out but couldn’t really reply. I just don’t like having my nose in my phone the whole time out with friends . Though I just had to to look every time I got not a notification lol. So when I got back last night I found that the box temp had dropped to 28F when checking the evap with the IR thermometer it was still showing a temp of -10 and -7 in some spots. (Dial set on 5) But my temp probe was still showing a temp of 1F. frozen to the bottom of the cooling unit. I also tried clipping it where the thermostat-probe is attached the evap and got the same readings. So from the advice I received in the comments ( thank you ! 😁) I decided to recalibrate the thermostat based on the IR readings. And let it run over night and a good part of today with out opening the door at all. I’m happy if not ecstatic! With the results! With dial set on 5. It’s shuts off when the evap temp is at 9/10 F and on at 20/21 F. The box is temp is roughly 35F. On time is 3 min and off time is 9min. I’m not sure at what point what went out of calibration first. My temp probe or the the thermostat on the CA. When I started this project my temp probe and IR would give readings very close to each other. But I stopped using the IR cause I just kinda forgot about it. ( stupid me ) Also it seemed in the beginning that the thermostat was pretty close to what the manual states. So I don’t know if it was from me turning the dial up and down wile trying to figure different things out ?. Figure it’s 84 years old and probably wasn’t ever turned up and down as much as it has been wile I’ve been working on things. Possibly it knocked it out calibrations ? I intend on getting a better temp probe so can get a better reading of what the temperatures really are. This has definitely turned out to be a weird series of events that appears to have run me in circles a little bit. But at least things are starting to look up ! 😁 Here’s a video of how it sounds Running R123! As I’ve mentioned before my phone tends to make things sound louder then they really are. I payed this back on my laptop and TV and it sounds pretty much like it does in real life. But on my phone it sounds much louder. youtu.be/f7_wv1Sn6v8 Hi AJ. Really happy that she's working so much better for you now!
Those temp probes are always suspect in my opinion. They seem as if they might not be all that waterproof, as well. That could have had some effect on the calibration of the probe.
When I get home this evening, I'll listen to your video! Can't wait to hear it.
I thought I was the only one who feels that it's rude to stay glued to a "device" while there is a real, live person to interact with! Glad I'm not the only one who has this old-school and very courteous attitude!
I was thinking the same thing about how the water may have effected the probe. If that’s the case, it’s been out calibration since the first time I decided to freeze it to the evaporator. Ugh ! Oh well. We live and learn lol. I’m just happy it’s working better . As far as being glued to a device. When I’m home and no ones around. I figure it’s no worse then sitting around watching TV. But when I’m out with people in the real world haha. I hardly ever mess with my phone. Tho I admit in the very early days of having a smart phone I was really bad for having my nose in my phone all the time ! But really it’s kinda rude to do that when your out with people. So I don’t do it much any more. I also feel that you miss a lot of what’s going on around when you attention is mostly directed to your phone. Life passes you by so to speak.
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Post by solarmike on Sept 23, 2018 22:19:18 GMT
When I’m home and no ones around. I figure it’s no worse then sitting around watching TV. But when I’m out with people in the real world haha. I hardly ever mess with my phone. Tho I admit in the very early days of having a smart phone I was really bad for having my nose in my phone all the time ! But really it’s kinda rude to do that when your out with people. So I don’t do it much any more. I also feel that you miss a lot of what’s going on around when you attention is mostly directed to your phone. Life passes you by so to speak. Yes sir I totally agree.... I don't understand when I go out with my wife to eat and people at most all of the tables around us have there faces in their phones.. Even if they have kids with them..... I really don't understand it...
Many people think it's wrong that I still have a flip phone and that I'm wanting to spend time with my wife or others rather than my phone... But I don't see a need to keep in touch with everyone at anytime...
Glad you got your MT running sweet....
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Post by ajc31980 on Sept 23, 2018 22:46:35 GMT
When I’m home and no ones around. I figure it’s no worse then sitting around watching TV. But when I’m out with people in the real world haha. I hardly ever mess with my phone. Tho I admit in the very early days of having a smart phone I was really bad for having my nose in my phone all the time ! But really it’s kinda rude to do that when your out with people. So I don’t do it much any more. I also feel that you miss a lot of what’s going on around when you attention is mostly directed to your phone. Life passes you by so to speak. Yes sir I totally agree.... I don't understand when I go out with my wife to eat and people at most all of the tables around us have there faces in their phones.. Even if they have kids with them..... I really don't understand it...
Many people think it's wrong that I still have a flip phone and that I'm wanting to spend time with my wife or others rather than my phone... But I don't see a need to keep in touch with everyone at anytime...
Glad you got your MT running sweet....
Hi mike. I’m glad I’m not the only that feels this way about cell phones. There are times that I actually miss my old flip phone lol. I’m glad my MT is running sweet to! And so glad that I don’t have to do a cap conversion ! I have to admit that I wasn’t really looking forward to doing that. But was willing to do so if need be. Haha.
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Post by birkie on Sept 23, 2018 23:05:10 GMT
To make apples-to-apples comparisons of run times, you really need inside and outside air temperatures to accompany the run time reading. Those provide important context and help interpret the significance of the duty cycle.
That being said assuming all things being equal (similar cabinet temperatures and outside ambient temperatures. I don't know if that is the case or not), duty cycles went from approx 36% on MF, to 25% on R123. 25% sounds a lot more reasonable. I don't think we know enough to understand why it improved so much. It could be that the float is still slightly worn, but the capacity of the R123 is enough higher than MF that the cycle times appear normal again despite a non-ideal float. It could be that the float is fine, but the original charge of MF was not ideal (under or over charged, or NCGs). It could also be that the machine is fine, both refrigerants are about the same, but the relevant temperatures were quite different.
But whatever the case, it seems happy now. Float seat wear seems unique to methyl formate, so on the plus side the float hopefully will not get any worse over time with the R123. Plus, this has surely been a fun experience.
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Post by ajc31980 on Sept 23, 2018 23:40:28 GMT
To make apples-to-apples comparisons of run times, you really need inside and outside air temperatures to accompany the run time reading. Those provide important context and help interpret the significance of the duty cycle. That being said assuming all things being equal (similar cabinet temperatures and outside ambient temperatures. I don't know if that is the case or not), duty cycles went from approx 36% on MF, to 25% on R123. 25% sounds a lot more reasonable. I don't think we know enough to understand why it improved so much. It could be that the float is still slightly worn, but the capacity of the R123 is enough higher than MF that the cycle times appear normal again despite a non-ideal float. It could be that the float is fine, but the original charge of MF was not ideal (under or over charged, or NCGs). It could also be that the machine is fine, both refrigerants are about the same, but the relevant temperatures were quite different. But whatever the case, it seems happy now. Float seat wear seems unique to methyl formate, so on the plus side the float hopefully will not get any worse over time with the R123. Plus, this has surely been a fun experience. I know what you mean about lack of info. Some questions will most likely never be answered. The MF that was in it , I didn’t save. Figured I didn’t have to and I didn’t have any thing to keep it in. Plus the smell of it makes my head spin along with making my stomach feel a bit upset. Guess I have a intolerance for the stuff. So personally I don’t miss it or want to have to deal with it again lol. The R123 doesn’t seem to bother me as much. It’s not as strong smelling. Hind sight is always 20/20 haha. I should have sucked it up and saved the MF to weigh it at least. But I really can’t the stuff lol. Says the guy that wants to some day have a DR that’s full of So2 lol. For NCGs. I don’t think there where any left. If so I’d say very little. I had purged it to the point of getting MF soon as I cracked the valve. Even after running for a week straight. I may have over done it with the purging. Or maybe it was incorrectly purged in the past. Because it did slightly improve after the first purge but things then went down hill after that. But still. I kept getting NCGs until that last purge. Most temp readings and run times. Have been done in a 72F to 75F ambient room temp. Today it’s been 72F in the room that the CA is in all day. Every time I’ve checked the out side box temp it’s been always been the same as the room temp. With the exception of the top being a little warmer up towards the top around the compressor. for me. It’s been at times a puzzling but fun experience lol 😁 They say knowledge is power and I feel I’ve gained a good chunk of knowledge on this one as well as the 1947GE that I was working on back in July. It’s given me the power to not rely and the local repair guys that could care less about the awesome machines ! At some point I plan on re-insulating the cabinet and changing the wiring. But for the time being I’m just very happy that it’s working better than it was ! 😁
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Post by cablehack on Sept 24, 2018 0:53:57 GMT
Very interesting work. It's great to have another confirmation of R123 being a suitable MF replacement. You're very fortunate to be able to get it so easily. It also has the advantage that it won't create NCG's by itself; the only NCG's would now be due to leakage. It might be worth experimenting with the charge level to see if the off times can be improved any more. However, I believe this isn't so critical with float valves. As you've found, control calibration can also have a misleading effect. I found with my CA-2 control that changing the temperature differential of its switching points by just one degree added a few minutes to the off time.
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Post by ajc31980 on Sept 24, 2018 2:54:22 GMT
Very interesting work. It's great to have another confirmation of R123 being a suitable MF replacement. You're very fortunate to be able to get it so easily. It also has the advantage that it won't create NCG's by itself; the only NCG's would now be due to leakage. It might be worth experimenting with the charge level to see if the off times can be improved any more. However, I believe this isn't so critical with float valves. As you've found, control calibration can also have a misleading effect. I found with my CA-2 control that changing the temperature differential of its switching points by just one degree added a few minutes to the off time. Yes the control was definitely misleading as well as my temp probe going out of calibration in the middle of it all. Ugh. But I know what to look out for now on possible future projects! For the time being I’m going to leave the control as it is. Once I get better temp probe, then I’m going figure what the best calibration is. Or hopefully I will lol. I’m just enjoying this moment of progress for as long as it last. And hopefully it lasts for a long time ! 😁 EDIT I forgot to mention. I’m glad that there won’t be any NCGs to deal with since I found out that I do not tolerate MF very well. I wasn’t sure if that would still be an issue or not.
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Post by ajc31980 on Sept 24, 2018 3:27:42 GMT
I’m not sure if I totally explained how I charged the machine. I was pretty brief on that. Basically I charged it as cablehack explains in his post on charging. I used a funnel cut to fit tight around the charge valve. With the machine off. Using a glass measuring cup that was big enough to hold 1 L. I poured the 123 into the funnel and the vacuum sucked it in when cracking the valve open. I could actually tell when the float opened cause the flow would pick up. I thought that was pretty cool ! I stopped before the funnel was totally empty so no air would get sucked in . I’d say 1.1 L the evap frosted pretty good but not totally. The frost line was a little low yet on the right side tank. It may have leveled out better if I would have waited longer. But I was excited and being impatient lol. So added another 100 milliliter. This brought the frost line up a little over the bottom of the right tank. And I probably could have left it there. But wanted to see if more would help the cycle times ( not knowing the thermostat was out of calibration). I kept bumping the charge till it was at 1.6 L and then my gut instinct was to stop doing that lol. Plus I was getting a bit tired. Figure in all the time that went into shutting down and letting things cool down enough to be able to add more. Then running it till the box was cold enough get a good idea of how it was doing. Certain projects I tend to get so involved that don’t sleep and run my self into the ground because I just can’t walk away till things are right lol.
my frost line has come down some. It’s not to much higher than when the machine was charged with FM. Idk if any one noticed that in the video. Compared To the pictures or past videos I posted . I would say that 1.1L is a good place to start and then slowly work your way up. I bet 1.3L would work pretty good . Just my wild guess.
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Post by elec573 on Sept 24, 2018 22:04:20 GMT
Very interesting AJ thanks for posting. Was wondering about just getting a thermometer and just leaving it in side, digital or something else easy to read?
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Post by ajc31980 on Sept 25, 2018 1:53:06 GMT
Very interesting AJ thanks for posting. Was wondering about just getting a thermometer and just leaving it in side, digital or something else easy to read? I’ve been using this little guy here now. Its never failed me. Should have stuck with it lol
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Post by elec573 on Sept 25, 2018 2:03:03 GMT
I have a round one that hangs from the rack easy to read and move around.
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Post by turbokinetic on Sept 25, 2018 2:55:37 GMT
I always use my car A/C vent thermometer. It sits on the racks nicely. For direct evaporator temp measurements, however, an electronic one is necessary so that you can see it without opening the door.
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Post by ajc31980 on Sept 25, 2018 3:05:18 GMT
I always use my car A/C vent thermometer. It sits on the racks nicely. For direct evaporator temp measurements, however, an electronic one is necessary so that you can see it without opening the door. Very true. I did order a new and hopefully better probe that’s suppose to work with my meter. It’s suppose to be water resistant as well ! It was around $10 on amazon . If that doesn’t work then I’ll break down and just get something better. I kinda tapped out all of my “fun “ money on this fridge lol. So I may have to wait a little wile if the probe I ordered isn’t accurate.
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Post by ajc31980 on Sept 29, 2018 12:29:23 GMT
Hi all
I tweaked the charged some. I’d say it’s now roughly is at 1.3 or 1.4 L Run times have improved. 1.46 to 2.05 min on. The off times are a bit of a different story. The off times change a good bit. The best being 9 minutes off to the worst being 5.30 minutes off. It seems to be random. I’m ruling out the thermostat as being the issue right now. It’s differential is always the same, off 13 F and on at 24F. The Box temp is always 34/35F in a 72F room. With an empty box. If I shake the machine some as per what is the manual about the stuck float. The times improve but then start to get bad again. But will randomly Improve and then get bad again. So I think this is leading me back the float being worn out . Ugh .
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Post by ajc31980 on Sept 29, 2018 12:35:19 GMT
Also I did get a new temperature probe. I bought a fieldpieace on amazon. It seems to be pretty accurate and has two temperature probes so it allows me to get the box temp and evap temp without ever opening the door it’s pretty nice! I had some reward points saved up. So I got it for next to nothing! 😁
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