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Post by cablehack on Sept 8, 2013 23:55:24 GMT
It's a fascinating read, but I have to say there weren't a lot of surprises. My fault finding theories turned out to be largely correct, but it would have been easier to have the manual back then rather than learn by 10 months of observation  The volume of methyl formate is given in cc which is useful (cubic centimetres is the same as millilitres), and is much as I thought it would be. What's interesting is that nowhere do they admit the NCG problem being a result of the instability of methyl formate. No mention of lard oil either. I've only had a quick read so far, so may have missed the publication date; maybe it was before they realised that. It was nice to see the confirmation that moisture in the system is not harmful. The float seat wire remains a mystery |
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Post by ChrisJ on Sept 9, 2013 0:37:48 GMT
The copyright date is 1946 so they knew pretty much all they were ever going to know. What I found interesting is the type of compressor it has along with the type of unloader. I did find out while evacuating mine that with the solid state relay, that unloader is kind of useless. I tried to start the compressor too soon and it ended up doing some weird stuff, though it did start, it ran slow. I also suspect as it says, you can hear the unloader thunk when it starts.
Right now, my opinion is the float valve damage had not shown its face yet in 1946. Also, did anyone notice it says the wattage consumption of a CA-2 should be around 175W and 160 for a CA-1 with 100F ambient? Has anyone measured their power consumption with a cap tube conversion?
I also found it interesting a CA-2-B machine runs colder temps than a CA-2-A machine. By quite a bit in fact, 8-17F @ #9 vs 4-13F for form B.
Cablehack, did you notice the form A defrosting is different than form B? As I suspected the form A does not return to ON by it self, at all while the form B says it should.
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Post by allan on Sept 9, 2013 0:48:49 GMT
The copyright date is 1946 so they knew pretty much all they were ever going to know. What I found interesting is the type of compressor it has along with the type of unloader. I did find out while evacuating mine that with the solid state relay, that unloader is kind of useless. I tried to start the compressor too soon and it ended up doing some weird stuff, though it did start, it ran slow. I also suspect as it says, you can hear the unloader thunk when it starts. Right now, my opinion is the float valve damage had not shown its face yet in 1946. Also, did anyone notice it says the wattage consumption of a CA-2 should be around 175W and 160 for a CA-1 with 100F ambient? Has anyone measured their power consumption with a cap tube conversion? I also found it interesting a CA-2-B machine runs colder temps than a CA-2-A machine. By quite a bit in fact, 8-17F @ #9 vs 4-13F for form B. Cablehack, did you notice the form A defrosting is different than form B? As I suspected the form A does not return to ON by it self, at all while the form B says it should. Great input! I do feel that something was going on with the float seats before 1946. If not why would they add the weird wire on the form B units? |
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Post by ChrisJ on Sept 9, 2013 0:51:50 GMT
Any chance that wire could be inserted partially and then pushed the rest of the way down into the hole after assembly?
As in, could it have been in there, with the hole open for a faster filling bypassing the float, and then pushed the rest of the way down into the hole to plug it after filling?
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Post by allan on Sept 9, 2013 1:06:14 GMT
Any chance that wire could be inserted partially and then pushed the rest of the way down into the hole after assembly? As in, could it have been in there, with the hole open for a faster filling bypassing the float, and then pushed the rest of the way down into the hole to plug it after filling? I guess anything is possible but the hole in the seat is almost the same size as the wire which fits very tight. It was pushed down into the MF flow path and I think it would be impossible to do anything with it after assembly. But who knows. A mystery for sure |
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Post by ChrisJ on Sept 9, 2013 1:08:16 GMT
Is there any kind of information that we could get our hands on as far as engineering and such from GE?
I know with antique Ford stuff there are the "Ford archives" which if you pay them, they will supply you with information on parts and what not.
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Post by cablehack on Sept 9, 2013 2:02:28 GMT
The CA-1 power consumption with cap conversion is a little less than what the manual says. Mine gets down to about 160W and that's with the heater (note the manual specifies motor power). So, take the heater out, and that's roughly 148W motor power. However, keep in mind that I haven't got the full amount of refrigerant in it yet.
I did notice the control differences regarding the auto defrost. The CA form A control looks the same as the LK Liftop, and a look through the Scotch Yoke manual seems to imply it is not automatic.
The operating differences between form A and B is interesting - I wonder why this would be.
From what I have seen, it appears there is a GE archive section, along the lines of what Ford have.
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Post by ChrisJ on Sept 9, 2013 2:33:18 GMT
Do you know how to go about "buying" info from the GE archives?
I didn't read those specs as being motor only. I read them as that is what the "refrigerating machine" consumes, to me that means with heater. My form A machine was consuming 220+W when I was running it with the heater. I have to assume the bad float valve causes a huge increase in power due to the massive amount of refrigerant flow.
Oh and whats with the "12 to 15 watt heater". Is that because they are throwing in a voltage variation in there, or did they use different heaters?
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Post by cablehack on Sept 9, 2013 3:10:42 GMT
The CA manual is now in zip form at members.iinet.net.au/~cool386/ge_service/ge_service.htmlMy guess is the variable heater rating might be to do with voltage. I notice a change of about that much on the wattmeter as my mains fluctuates from 228 to 245V (equiv to 114 to 123V). One way to find out for sure is for everyone with an intact original heater to measure its resistance. My CA-1 heater is 950 ohms. When I constructed the heater for my CA-2, I just used the DR specs in the Nickerson & Collins book which said 1000 ohms. I notice the official DR manual also says 12-15W, so must be exactly the same heater as the CA. There is some mention of a "mullion heater" for some of the double door Flatops. It looks the same from the diagrams but is apparently only about 8W. All the CA wattages are listed under "Motor" so I assumed that's what they were, but it could be ambiguous - they ought to say with or without heater. I'm not sure how one accesses the GE archives, but I have a feeling it's not something that can be done just over the internet. I have put things into its search in vain but not got anything. I think it requires some tortuous path to get to the info...assuming it's actually been scanned. Perhaps one has to turn up to Schenectady in person. |
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Post by coldspaces on Sept 9, 2013 4:53:38 GMT
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Post by cablehack on Sept 9, 2013 5:13:57 GMT
Thanks for the links....there's a CA with a DR lookalike evaporator in one of the pics. How bizarre! Must have been a pre production model.
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Post by ChrisJ on Sept 9, 2013 13:51:14 GMT
I sent them an email asking if they had any such information. They are around a 2 hour drive for me so I would definitely go there if its worth it.
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Post by coldspaces on Sept 9, 2013 13:57:35 GMT
I sent them an email asking if they had any such information. They are around a 2 hour drive for me so I would definitely go there if its worth it. Wow great that you are so close. Not sure what all they have for tec info but it sounds like they have a lot of other info and pics. Hope they will embrace the cause of helping to keep these refrigerating machines in action. |
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Grigg
5 Cubic Foot
Posts: 95
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Post by Grigg on Sept 9, 2013 17:52:26 GMT
Thanks, glad to help. I'm new to the monitor tops and was looking at the CK manual cablehack has here. He had a note at the time on the page that there ought to be a similar CA manual but he hadn't found it. It made sense to me that the manual should exist and I thought it strange that you guys hadn't found it so I started looking all the places I could think of, online, used book sellers, libraries and so on. Somehow in that searching I turned up someone selling what looked like the right thing and passed the info on to cablehack. Grigg |
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Post by allan on Sept 10, 2013 0:55:09 GMT
The CA manual is now in zip form at members.iinet.net.au/~cool386/ge_service/ge_service.htmlMy guess is the variable heater rating might be to do with voltage. I notice a change of about that much on the wattmeter as my mains fluctuates from 228 to 245V (equiv to 114 to 123V). One way to find out for sure is for everyone with an intact original heater to measure its resistance. My CA-1 heater is 950 ohms. When I constructed the heater for my CA-2, I just used the DR specs in the Nickerson & Collins book which said 1000 ohms. I notice the official DR manual also says 12-15W, so must be exactly the same heater as the CA. There is some mention of a "mullion heater" for some of the double door Flatops. It looks the same from the diagrams but is apparently only about 8W. All the CA wattages are listed under "Motor" so I assumed that's what they were, but it could be ambiguous - they ought to say with or without heater. I'm not sure how one accesses the GE archives, but I have a feeling it's not something that can be done just over the internet. I have put things into its search in vain but not got anything. I think it requires some tortuous path to get to the info...assuming it's actually been scanned. Perhaps one has to turn up to Schenectady in person. Tried to access manual but link just takes me to iinet with a blank page. Thanks |
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