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Post by joneske on Nov 6, 2016 23:11:05 GMT
I apologize if I have posted this in the wrong location, but I picked up what I believe to be a mini-flat top this weekend. I think it is going to be a fun little restore. It is only 23.5”L X 23.5” W and 34.5” tall so it should be comparatively easy to work on. I am trying to learn as much about it as possible before I tear into it, so any information anyone has on these would be appreciated. The following are some questions I have at this point:
It appears that it should have an offset shelf judging by the placement of the support pegs. Is that correct? It is probably unlikely that I will be able to find one, but I am curious.
The one shelf it came with has some raised bumps on it. Any idea what they are for?
The badge on it is cracked. I have one that would fit in that spot that came off a Seeger cabinet, but I will be looking for the correct on if it is out there.
If anyone has one they could sell or trade please let me know.
It seems to be running well. I cleaned the condenser and plugged it in and it stared right up and runs quietly. The cabinet got down to 30 degrees in under an hour, I’m sure because of its small size. I’m going to let it run the rest of the day and see how it does.
drive.google.com/open?id=1V4PgTXruj1CU0Z87ugPS9x1XBR3QFfLb
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Post by joneske on Nov 7, 2016 15:57:05 GMT
After running all night, the cabinet maintained a temperature of 28 degrees with the control set at one. The bellows tube appears to be in the right place, so I assume the control needs to be recalibrated.
Also, the evaporator was only frosting on the right side and the top shelf.
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Post by ckfan on Nov 7, 2016 17:57:30 GMT
The shelf with the bumps is for a defrost tray. It goes on top. The other upper pegs would have had a half shelf on it.
The evaporator only frosting on the top and right tells me that it has a bad restriction on the lower right corner. Apply heat to it with the unit off until the evaporator gets nice and hot. Then turn it back on. That would explain why the control isn't shutting it off. That part of the evaporator where the bellows tube is isn't getting cold enough.
I would heat it with a heat gun or a hot plate. Good luck! I really like this little guy.
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Post by ckfan on Nov 9, 2016 19:23:56 GMT
Ok, I've got some bad news. I have been chatting with Kevin about what might be causing part of his evaporator to remain bare. After looking in the scotch yoke manual things don't look good. As you can see from the snipping I took, it looks like it is low on refrigerant. Somewhere there must be a tiny, tiny leak. This has led to the bottom and right side of the evaporator not frosting up. I also cannot find this model anywhere in the scotch yoke manual. It must be a latter style FEA type unit which would make sense since there is a fan cooled condenser and a cap tube instead of a float valve according to Kevin. It also uses R12 which further confirms this theory. I wish I had an easy answer for you. You are going to have to find some sort of replacement for R12 to put inside of it. Maybe Gill has a suggestion? To view the photos in this post, please follow this link: drive.google.com/open?id=0B8_jm7K-ahMaYlY2RTVNdEtqNnM |
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Post by joneske on Nov 9, 2016 19:31:23 GMT
Not the news I wanted, but appreciate the info. However,I have one question. One symptom they mention is "runs continuously." Mine cycles on and off and maintains a low temp. Is that consistent with the low refrigerant diagnosis?
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Post by ckfan on Nov 9, 2016 19:34:45 GMT
I'm honestly not sure. It could be just slightly low on refrigerant (it obviously is still trying to work well). The fact that it took so long for it to cycle before it shut off though leads me to believe that since the left side isn't getting the frosty love the thermostat is clueless as when to shut off. Hence the low temp in the cabinet. Maybe someone with more experience with odd frosting patterns can chime in.
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Post by coldspaces on Nov 9, 2016 23:17:13 GMT
This apears to be a flooded type evap. Can you post a pic of where the cap tube goes into the coil at. I think it should be feeding in at the center in the bottom back part. Low charge or some other restriction could cause the bare spots. R-12 is still around if you can find it or a service man who has some.
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Post by 100yearfridge on Nov 10, 2016 1:50:21 GMT
Kevin, I'll be really interested in taking a look at this. I don't have any experience with repairing old refrigerators, but I would agree that it sounds like a low charge. How warm is the suction line back to the compressor? The compressor itself? Is the condenser blowing much warm air? If it isn't blowing very warm air you could try blocking some of the air flow from the condenser with a piece of paper or cardboard. This should raise the head pressure, and probably force more refrigerant to the low side (if there even is enough to do so). What air is coming off the condenser should get warmer, and the frost pattern on the evaporator should change. I have no guarantees on this, just something to try.
If it is a restriction in the cap tube, then I suppose that while it is running normally (without the cardboard) it might have a very hot compressor shell and discharge line; the end of the condenser where it goes to the cap tube will be barely warm. In that case we would have to pull the charge and blow the cap tube out with nitrogen. I think it is low on refrigerant though. There are hydrocarbon based blends to replace r12, but I could understand if you want to keep it original.
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Post by joneske on Nov 10, 2016 16:11:45 GMT
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Post by ckfan on Nov 10, 2016 16:17:19 GMT
Yep, just as I thought. This machine has to have the "FEA" style unit. The evaporator is exactly like the one in Travis's new FEA size 1 unit and is also very similar to the one in my dad's GE spacemaker from the late 40s.
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Post by joneske on Nov 11, 2016 0:16:57 GMT
Kevin, I'll be really interested in taking a look at this. I don't have any experience with repairing old refrigerators, but I would agree that it sounds like a low charge. How warm is the suction line back to the compressor? The compressor itself? Is the condenser blowing much warm air? If it isn't blowing very warm air you could try blocking some of the air flow from the condenser with a piece of paper or cardboard. This should raise the head pressure, and probably force more refrigerant to the low side (if there even is enough to do so). What air is coming off the condenser should get warmer, and the frost pattern on the evaporator should change. I have no guarantees on this, just something to try. If it is a restriction in the cap tube, then I suppose that while it is running normally (without the cardboard) it might have a very hot compressor shell and discharge line; the end of the condenser where it goes to the cap tube will be barely warm. In that case we would have to pull the charge and blow the cap tube out with nitrogen. I think it is low on refrigerant though. There are hydrocarbon based blends to replace r12, but I could understand if you want to keep it original. Mike, I would love to have you take a look at it. I am working on clearing some room so that I can get it on my rolling cart for easier access. I would be interested in trying the cardboard trick if there is a possibility of it helping. My preference is to always keep things original, but I would be open to a conversion if that is what it takes to get it working properly. |
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Post by joneske on Nov 14, 2016 19:25:30 GMT
Kevin, I'll be really interested in taking a look at this. I don't have any experience with repairing old refrigerators, but I would agree that it sounds like a low charge. How warm is the suction line back to the compressor? The compressor itself? Is the condenser blowing much warm air? If it isn't blowing very warm air you could try blocking some of the air flow from the condenser with a piece of paper or cardboard. This should raise the head pressure, and probably force more refrigerant to the low side (if there even is enough to do so). What air is coming off the condenser should get warmer, and the frost pattern on the evaporator should change. I have no guarantees on this, just something to try. If it is a restriction in the cap tube, then I suppose that while it is running normally (without the cardboard) it might have a very hot compressor shell and discharge line; the end of the condenser where it goes to the cap tube will be barely warm. In that case we would have to pull the charge and blow the cap tube out with nitrogen. I think it is low on refrigerant though. There are hydrocarbon based blends to replace r12, but I could understand if you want to keep it original. Mike came over Sunday and we tried the paper trick. It improved the frost pattern dramatically as he predicted. After removing the paper the frost remained, but seemed to be getting a little wetter at the top left. I turned it off for several hours, then restarted and it performed exactly as before, only frosting on the right side. Am I correct to assume this suggests a low charge? Below is a picture of one of the ports. Does anyone know if fittings are available for these? |
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Post by 100yearfridge on Nov 15, 2016 4:31:57 GMT
Here are some pictures of the evaporator at different times. I didn't get a shot of it before we started, but looking at the bottom, the left side really didn't frost. The compressor and discharge line never got very warm, and the condenser was not blowing anything considered warm. It should be noted that the temperature in the garage was probably in the high 50s or maybe lower 60s. After covering the air cooled condenser with a piece of cardstock, everything warmed up a bit, and the frost line on the evaporator crept up the side until the header was mostly frosted, even more so than the second picture shows. I believe this is due to a rise in head pressure, forcing more refrigerant to the low side and better feeding the evaporator. We let it run like this for a while, then removed the card stock. Within a pretty short period of time the frost line was receding. I think it is low on charge. If the capillary tube were plugged I would think the refrigerant backing up on the high side would drive the condenser temperature up as well as the compressor itself. _    _  |
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Post by 100yearfridge on Nov 15, 2016 5:24:52 GMT
Here is a closer picture of the service valve on this refrigerator. There are two of them; one is on the high side line before the condenser, and this one protrudes from the compressor shell. I assume that the shell is low side. Both valves have a very brittle shrink tubing, and it doesn't look like they have ever been accessed. I don't know what this fitting really is or how to approach accessing the low side with it. I wonder if by removing the hex will exposed an access valve within it, or will refrigerant just escape. Also, what are the external threads for? I reviewed the CK service manual and also some searching around the site to discover the Imperial service valve adapter kit. I'm guessing that there is a Bristol key or something behind this plug. The compressor looks similar to some of the FEA compressors I am seeing, so maybe some of you folks can help. I don't know what year it is, but from some of the patent numbers on a relay, I'm sure it is at least late 1940, but I'm thinking a few years newer still. I'll keep looking for some more information, but any help would be appreciated. Since all we need to do apparently is add a little squirt of R-12, it would be nice to access the system without having to braze anything; seems it took 70 years for it to get just a bit low. THat being said, I could pierce the line and recover what is in it, braze on a 1/4" flare Schrader, and charge. Joneske wants to get into restoration soon, and if we tore it apart (the cabinet is removable) we could pressure test and soap bubble it all down to find a possible leak before we charged it. Anyway, enough rambling...  |
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Post by ChrisJ on Nov 15, 2016 8:27:37 GMT
The problem with the service adapter kit is their small list doesn't really tell you anything other than GE uses a spline for the charge screw. It looks like it would use the adapter I show here after removing the plug, but it's hard to tell from looking at pictures. Are there any threads on the large flange? I assume not, but that's how the older GE's connected. Attachments:
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