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Post by ChrisJ on Aug 18, 2013 16:40:29 GMT
This is an example of the valve adapter kit required for working on a Monitor Top or Flat Top machine. This specific one is an Imperial 182-F and 289-F service valve kit for hermetic sealed units. If you buy one from ebay make sure it has the spline key also known as a Bristol key.
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Tools
Aug 18, 2013 22:25:18 GMT
Post by jhigdon2 on Aug 18, 2013 22:25:18 GMT
I will have to look for one of those. I only have a few odds and ends
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Tools
Aug 25, 2013 17:34:57 GMT
Post by ChrisJ on Aug 25, 2013 17:34:57 GMT
So I went to connect my one adapter to the broken CA B machine I got from Brooklyn. I figured I should figure it out now while I have time and trying it on a broken machine was a good test.
First, my L wrench or at least the one in my nice kit doesn't fit into the purging screw. I used one of my other wrenches to break it loose but cannot figure out whats going on with the L wrench as it looks perfect. Next I find it doesn't have a secondary sealing screw, only one. This unit was reconditioned in the 40s, wonder if that is when it went missing?
The next problem was the valve body nut won't screw onto the machine as it isn't long enough. I had to use another adapter in the box to make things work. I forget the number but I want to say #3. This is confusing as the chart claims the valvebody nut is all that is needed? I should compare my two adapters side by side as I recall the nut on this one looking different for some reason. Did anyone else need to use another adapter when connecting to a form B machine?
I also learned the gauge on my nitrogen regulator isn't extremely accurate at low pressures and don't forget to tighten the packing nut on the adapter. It likes to shoot the handle up in the air.
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Tools
Aug 25, 2013 23:33:00 GMT
Post by cablehack on Aug 25, 2013 23:33:00 GMT
So you've had that problem too? Interesting, because the wrench in my blue kit doesn't fit although it looks like it should, but the one in my orange kit fits perfectly. There's no visible difference, so I can assume it's a slight difference in machining. Fortunately, the L shaped wrench is only needed for the initial loosening and final tightening. The spline adaptor that fits in the charge valve adaptor is used the rest of the time. I'm sort of under the impression the secondary sealing screw was found to be non essential. It can't make a proper seal because it just seats into the top of the other screw, which isn't exactly a smooth surface. I think it was used to discourage non techincal people tampering. Just so you don't worry about it, my CA-1 has a damaged thread at the top of the charge valve so the secondary screw only goes in part of the way before the thread jams. And, because of the frequency I used to purge my CA-2 at, a lot of the time I didn't even have the secondary screw in it. If you look at the CK etc, float valve cutaway diagrams, they don't even have one. As you've found, setting the nitrogen regulator can be a little tricky. What I do is set up the regulator running into a closed ball valve (a gaseous short circuit?), so as to set the maximum pressure I'm likely to use - say 40psi. From then on I'll just use the pressure gauge (the blue one in your pic above) and adjust the valve on the nitrogen tank accordingly.
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Tools
Aug 26, 2013 2:00:02 GMT
Post by ChrisJ on Aug 26, 2013 2:00:02 GMT
How tight should one put the adapter? It seems like a pretty big fitting so I'm assuming it is not terribly fragile but at the same time it makes me nervous as we are dealing with things that cannot be replaced.
I have a small maybe 6" adjustable wrench I used on it but I also have a 12" adjustable but that seemed way too big for the job.
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Tools
Aug 26, 2013 2:13:54 GMT
Post by allan on Aug 26, 2013 2:13:54 GMT
How tight should one put the adapter? It seems like a pretty big fitting so I'm assuming it is not terribly fragile but at the same time it makes me nervous as we are dealing with things that cannot be replaced. I have a small maybe 6" adjustable wrench I used on it but I also have a 12" adjustable but that seemed way too big for the job. I use 2 of the copper washers included in the valve kit between the CA fitting and the adapter and firm down with my 12 inch adjustable. This provided me a leak proof seal with no problems
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Tools
Aug 26, 2013 3:56:47 GMT
Post by cablehack on Aug 26, 2013 3:56:47 GMT
I used an adjustable spanner, about 250mm long I think. Hand tight was enough - always worried about ripping the welds out. Beware of leakage around the rubber gland, as well as between the charge valve and adaptor. I found the copper washers OK with the CA-2, but the CA-1 needed a home made lead washer. Even then it wasn't 100%, but still quite adequate with the vacuum pump running.
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Tools
Aug 26, 2013 13:38:38 GMT
Post by allan on Aug 26, 2013 13:38:38 GMT
I used an adjustable spanner, about 250mm long I think. Hand tight was enough - always worried about ripping the welds out. Beware of leakage around the rubber gland, as well as between the charge valve and adaptor. I found the copper washers OK with the CA-2, but the CA-1 needed a home made lead washer. Even then it wasn't 100%, but still quite adequate with the vacuum pump running. I found the 2 copper washers with a light film of oil to be 100% leak free with the micron gauge attached for several hours. I did use the copper washers that were in the adapter kit
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Tools
Aug 26, 2013 14:16:51 GMT
Post by ChrisJ on Aug 26, 2013 14:16:51 GMT
I used an adjustable spanner, about 250mm long I think. Hand tight was enough - always worried about ripping the welds out. Beware of leakage around the rubber gland, as well as between the charge valve and adaptor. I found the copper washers OK with the CA-2, but the CA-1 needed a home made lead washer. Even then it wasn't 100%, but still quite adequate with the vacuum pump running. I found the 2 copper washers with a light film of oil to be 100% leak free with the micron gauge attached for several hours. I did use the copper washers that were in the adapter kit Do you mean you stacked two copper washers, or used one per connection? I'm assuming you used one on the first adapter and then a second between the valve body and the adapter? I had also thought about using oil on the washers to help them seal.
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Tools
Aug 26, 2013 17:00:06 GMT
Post by allan on Aug 26, 2013 17:00:06 GMT
I found the 2 copper washers with a light film of oil to be 100% leak free with the micron gauge attached for several hours. I did use the copper washers that were in the adapter kit Do you mean you stacked two copper washers, or used one per connection? I'm assuming you used one on the first adapter and then a second between the valve body and the adapter? I had also thought about using oil on the washers to help them seal. That was 2 washers between the GE valve and the #2 adapter. 1 washer between the #2 adapter and valve assembly
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Tools
Aug 26, 2013 23:13:21 GMT
Post by cablehack on Aug 26, 2013 23:13:21 GMT
A neoprene O ring was something else I had in mind but didn't need to try it.
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Tools
Aug 27, 2013 3:40:04 GMT
Post by jhigdon2 on Aug 27, 2013 3:40:04 GMT
I use a neoprene oring.
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Tools
Aug 27, 2013 16:50:33 GMT
Post by ChrisJ on Aug 27, 2013 16:50:33 GMT
I still have not heard any ideas on how to remove the secondary charge screw on the form A CA machine? I believe someone had recommended a large iron in the past but I do not have one. Would a torch be ok to use if used carefully?
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Grigg
5 Cubic Foot
Posts: 95
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Tools
Aug 27, 2013 17:00:33 GMT
Post by Grigg on Aug 27, 2013 17:00:33 GMT
How about your torch and an old fashion soldering iron, the kind with the heavy copper bit on a steel rod with a wood handle (or make one). Probably cheaper than a suitable sized electric one, the old ones can be found for a few dollars in junk shops. I found a big old electric one in a junk shop, just what I needed for re-soldering a small gas engine tank that I wasn't having much luck with just using the torch. So the big electric ones can be found too if you're looking.
I'd be afraid you'd burn a lot of paint and risk damaging other things with just the torch. A soldering iron is heat just where you put it, not the surrounding area as well unless you take too long.
Grigg
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Tools
Aug 27, 2013 18:44:25 GMT
Post by ChrisJ on Aug 27, 2013 18:44:25 GMT
Trying to get what I think is a Weller 200/260W soldering gun at work to work. I think its got a bad connection to the tip so I'll mess with that after hours.
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