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Post by brianc on Dec 29, 2014 13:30:26 GMT
So, always wanted a "cool" old refrigerator for the garage (pardon the pun).
Found a monitor top in a local junk shop for $100, so I thought I'd take it home. Seller was honest, said it just buzzed but didnt start up. She was right, but it's in real good shape, other than paint and door seal. Turns out to be a DR-1 Form B (as on the tag). It's seized up tight, and I've tried the manual start as described in the service manual that I found on here (jumping start and run windings after removing the Type E control box).
What I do know:
I think the heater works, because I hear the faint boiling sounds when it's plugged in.
When doing the manual start with 120v, I hear a click and grunt from the comp. motor when i jump the start and run windings.
The control box will kick out as it's supposed to.
Resistance is 5 ohms on run windings, 7 ohms on start windings.
What I've tried:
Ran heater for 24 hrs or more before kicking the switch.
Manual start using 120v and jumping start and run windings to eliminate control box.
Left it upside down with a heat lamp for a day.
"Love taps" with a rubber hammer on comp. top and float housing.
What I am afraid to try, or don't know how to do:
240v manual start - can somebody help me out on connections? Thought that I could hook up both 120v wires to run winding tab, and ground (green) wire to "common" tab, with a jumper over to start tab. Then I'd flip the breaker on for a second and see if it budges.
I do have electrical basics, but know squat about the refrigeration side of the whole deal. I have no tools related to that side of the puzzle (not even a Bristol Key). I really want to save this thing, but for $100 I still have a really nice cabinet to hold welding rods!
Any help would be appreciated.
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Post by allan on Dec 30, 2014 1:35:14 GMT
I would suggest to try a start capacitor in series with the start winding on 120 volts before trying the 240 volt test. If you can get your hands on a 125 to 200 mfd start capacitor and try it for a couple of seconds. Be careful with the capacitor after the test as it can severely shock you. Carefully short the terminals together before un wiring it.
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Post by brianc on Dec 30, 2014 13:35:42 GMT
I have a 150 microfarad from a drill press motor.
Now this will sound stupid: one wire from capacitor to start and the other to run, with power coming in on the run side?
And yes, I've been nipped (well, hammered) by one. Only took me one time to learn to discharge with a screwdriver first...
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Post by allan on Dec 30, 2014 14:44:27 GMT
Yes that is the correct connection. Be ultra careful and don't leave it powered up for more than a couple of seconds to see if the rotor will start to spin. You don't want that capacitor blowing up in your face.
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Post by brianc on Dec 30, 2014 16:29:11 GMT
Actually just picked up a Supco hard start. There is an appliance place just across from my work. Figured that may work. Would you recommend leaving that wired into the system, and if so, how do i accomplish that and still use the control box?
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Post by allan on Dec 30, 2014 17:35:51 GMT
We can get you a diagram to use the supco with your control box. But for now I would disconnect the control box and wire the Supco kit directly to your compressor. But first which model Supco do you have? Does your kit include an overload?
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Post by brianc on Dec 30, 2014 18:05:21 GMT
It's an RC0810. 3n1 start
Solid state relay overload start capacitor combination.
Should i only use momentarily or keep the juice on it?
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Post by coldspaces on Dec 30, 2014 18:54:24 GMT
The Supco rco810 is rated 1/12-1/5 hp so it should trip the overload before any real damage is done I would think. It will not recycle instantly though, needs time to cool off between cycles.
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Post by brianc on Dec 30, 2014 19:17:42 GMT
Yes, I think I saw that on here somewhere. Matter of fact, I know I did. Cant recall which post, but it seems like someone was having issues on restarts due to the 3n1 and had to take it out of the equation. Fingers crossed that I can rely on the original controls to work after I blow the back out of this thing with the 3n1. If that dont work, I may try the 240v deal. They originally tried to sell me a 3n1 that was for a higher HP rating, but I noticed it before I walked out.
I do agree that popping the top off of the control and going straight to the motor leads is the easiest at this point. I want to try and run it a little while and see if that thing will fix itself. I'm hoping that the only thing wrong is years of sitting unplugged and unused. I have kept it plugged in for a few days so the oil will be warm.
Will let you guys know what happens. Right now I have a bunch of beers that are hoping to find a cold spot to hang out. I dont want to let them down...
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Post by brianc on Dec 31, 2014 1:37:11 GMT
Ok. Tried 3n1, but may not have wired it up correctly. I have power to run windings, and none to start.
Maybe Im an idiot, but how do i wire this to the mains? Diagram on box seemed dummy proof. I wired a std cord up with black to one power side of 3n1, white to other wire labeled power. Then the others as in the diagram. Jack squat. It grunts more when i do the manual start as described in the book. What am i missing?
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Post by coldspaces on Dec 31, 2014 3:45:08 GMT
2 black wires without any connectors on the ends should hook too power. Black with pin connector goes to common. Red with connector goes to run and white with connector goes too start. Is this the way you have it wired?
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Post by allan on Dec 31, 2014 4:30:45 GMT
Coldspaces has described the wiring diagram. The Supco will not leave the start energized very long and then drops it out whether it starts or not. Try clipping your tester leads on the common and start terminals to monitor this during start test. If it is stuck you may be better off with the separate capacitor wired in series like we discussed earlier. Hopefully the Supco is ok and will start it up
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Post by brianc on Dec 31, 2014 12:46:32 GMT
Ok. That's how i had it wired. Just wondered if the supco didnt know when to release it's charge. Next steps will probably be the capacitor in series, then 240v if it comes to that. After that, who knows.
Can anybody help me on the wiring for 240? I would assume you would double up your hot wires on the run tab, the ground on common, and a jumper wired between run and start. I plan on simply using the circuit breaker as a switch, and limiting application of power to just a second or so.
I dont have the tools or know how to evacuate this thing, but i want to try a rebuild. I wont give up on it, even if have to put modern guts in it. Refrigeration is something i dont know much about, but I'd like to add it to my "can do" list.
Getting another top or parts would be really tough for me. I do live in WV, where there's no shortage of old appliances on porches. Problem is, the power company pays people to haul them off. Same reason you cant have copper or aluminum laying around, the druggies steal and scrap it!
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Post by blackhorse on Jan 1, 2015 4:35:02 GMT
NOooooooo !!! --
NEVER connect your 2 hot wires to the same point!!!
Or the next very loud sound you hear may be your last!
1 side of 220 hot to Run. Jumper from Run to Start. (Or to 220v-rated start cap and other terminal of cap to Start).
Other side of 220 hot to Common.
Do not connect line ground to anything at this point.
Also your jumpers should be fairly substantial. 12 ga or larger. You can expect 30 to 40 amps locked rotor. Those little alligator clip jumpers you get at electronic stores won't cut it.
Turn on and off as quickly as you can flip the switch. Either it will break free immediately or not at all, any extra time will only serve to blow the windings.
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Post by brianc on Jan 1, 2015 15:27:38 GMT
Well, no luck with the 240v.
It's decision time now. Do i buy a donor machine for a modern conversion, or do i figure out how to do surgery?
Never been a big fan on modernizing stuff. The whole reason (for people who appreciate) we get old stuff is to preserve it and enjoy it in the ORIGiNAL form. I could never look at her the same if i converted it over.
It looks pretty involved from what I've read on here. Easy to see why GE wanted to simply replace the tops. Im sure they looked at it in terms of overall cost. But a big part of that cost is labor, which is free if you dont mind (or enjoy) doing it yourself.
This looks like something I could really get into for a hobby, and I enjoy a challenge. My list of hobbies is always increasing.
I know what just about anybody on here would do, but i dont have the refrigeration tools that you guys do, or the know how. Think I need to find a refrigeration buddy closeby to work with. Anybody close to WV?
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