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Post by coldspaces on Apr 4, 2014 5:19:38 GMT
And this is what annoys me about CK type units. You even put the wrong refrigerant in it and ended up with amazing run times. It sometimes feels like trying to compete in a race when you're the only one without a supercharger. I think the high side shell has some real disadvantages. The garage is cool but it runs such short times I don't think the extra watts are heating anything up much at 60F conditions. I was out there doing some cleaning and this thing sure doesn't run much. I know I read it is the 1/8 hp motor in the CG's. Is the pump the same as the CK compressors? Just the evap and refrigerant charge change? If so the CG may preform different on R-12 than a Ck with its larger evap. |
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Post by coldspaces on Apr 4, 2014 5:25:41 GMT
The real question is whether your wife likes it. If she doesn't like a ball top, she's a fridge hater. Don't know I guess she hasn't seen it yet. She was just a few feet from it last night. It was upside down and she didn't even pay any attention to it. Also didn't notice our old freezer is out there. If she had she would know we had a newzed one. I started to work to make it presentable tonight. Hope when she does see it it is love at first sight. |
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Post by Travis on Apr 4, 2014 5:28:33 GMT
They really are cute. Just wait till you see all the stuff I've collected when you come down.
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Post by ChrisJ on Apr 4, 2014 10:20:00 GMT
The real question is whether your wife likes it. If she doesn't like a ball top, she's a fridge hater. I don't like ball tops but I'm not a fridge hater.  |
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Post by ChrisJ on Apr 4, 2014 10:22:22 GMT
And this is what annoys me about CK type units. You even put the wrong refrigerant in it and ended up with amazing run times. It sometimes feels like trying to compete in a race when you're the only one without a supercharger. I think the high side shell has some real disadvantages. The garage is cool but it runs such short times I don't think the extra watts are heating anything up much at 60F conditions. I was out there doing some cleaning and this thing sure doesn't run much. I know I read it is the 1/8 hp motor in the CG's. Is the pump the same as the CK compressors? Just the evap and refrigerant charge change? If so the CG may preform different on R-12 than a Ck with its larger evap. From what I recall it looked like the balltop has a CK compressor in it. I saw the little oil jet spraying oil up at the top of the ball somewhere in an ad and the ball does have the little dimple at the top. |
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Post by birkie on Apr 4, 2014 11:52:32 GMT
Is the pump the same as the CK compressors? Just the evap and refrigerant charge change? If so the CG may preform different on R-12 than a Ck with its larger evap. Yes, same exact compressor (bore, stroke, displacement, etc) as the CK-1 and CK-2. Nice work! |
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Post by birkie on Apr 4, 2014 11:55:11 GMT
The real question is whether your wife likes it. If she doesn't like a ball top, she's a fridge hater. Don't know I guess she hasn't seen it yet. She was just a few feet from it last night. It was upside down and she didn't even pay any attention to it. Also didn't notice our old freezer is out there. If she had she would know we had a newzed one. I started to work to make it presentable tonight. Hope when she does see it it is love at first sight. My wife thinks the CG is real cute, and wants me to find one once our house renovation is done. Then again, she also thinks our CK and CF are cute too. |
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Post by coldspaces on Apr 4, 2014 13:24:49 GMT
Is the pump the same as the CK compressors? Just the evap and refrigerant charge change? If so the CG may preform different on R-12 than a Ck with its larger evap. Yes, same exact compressor (bore, stroke, displacement, etc) as the CK-1 and CK-2. Nice work! That's what I thought. So the CK-1 and CK-2 would have more load from the larger evap and larger refrigerant charge with the same size motor and pump. They should be louder than my CG is on R-12. |
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Post by coldspaces on Apr 6, 2014 3:47:05 GMT
Well now I decided to remove the R-12 and she is running on 134A today. I am surprised though at the results so far. When I started to put R-12 in by mistake I wasn't sure how much I put in. The 134a got weighed in. I started with 8oz and had to get about 12oz in before any real flow started through the float. At 1 lb 4 oz all the coil was frosted, maybe to much. I didn't expect the watts to be higher than R-12? Was sure that the less dense R-134a would draw less watts. So far when it starts it draws about 240 watts, drops to about 220 watts when it cycles off.
I pushed the charge up 2 oz at a time till I had 1 lb 10 oz in it and all I did was raise the head pressure till it was 110 psig in my 60f garage. Now I have removed 6 oz and it is working good but the watts are too high still. Frost line is good so may try removing some more before I do anything else.
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Post by allan on Apr 6, 2014 4:43:07 GMT
Well now I decided to remove the R-12 and she is running on 134A today. I am surprised though at the results so far. When I started to put R-12 in by mistake I wasn't sure how much I put in. The 134a got weighed in. I started with 8oz and had to get about 12oz in before any real flow started through the float. At 1 lb 4 oz all the coil was frosted, maybe to much. I didn't expect the watts to be higher than R-12? Was sure that the less dense R-134a would draw less watts. So far when it starts it draws about 240 watts, drops to about 220 watts when it cycles off. I pushed the charge up 2 oz at a time till I had 1 lb 10 oz in it and all I did was raise the head pressure till it was 110 psig in my 60f garage. Now I have removed 6 oz and it is working good but the watts are too high still. Frost line is good so may try removing some more before I do anything else. How does it sound with the 134? More or less noise than the r12? |
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Post by ChrisJ on Apr 6, 2014 15:31:02 GMT
Maybe the floats will all work fine with any gas being they are an on\off device rather than modulating? Perhaps the float just pops up at a slightly higher liquid level but it doesn't really matter?
I had always heard R134A ran much higher head pressures than R-12 though I never understood why.
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Post by Travis on Apr 6, 2014 23:12:43 GMT
Gill just left with a stalled DR2. We'll see if he tries to free it up before he robs the SO2 and fixes the ball top.
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Post by coldspaces on Apr 7, 2014 4:15:05 GMT
Well now I decided to remove the R-12 and she is running on 134A today. I am surprised though at the results so far. When I started to put R-12 in by mistake I wasn't sure how much I put in. The 134a got weighed in. I started with 8oz and had to get about 12oz in before any real flow started through the float. At 1 lb 4 oz all the coil was frosted, maybe to much. I didn't expect the watts to be higher than R-12? Was sure that the less dense R-134a would draw less watts. So far when it starts it draws about 240 watts, drops to about 220 watts when it cycles off. I pushed the charge up 2 oz at a time till I had 1 lb 10 oz in it and all I did was raise the head pressure till it was 110 psig in my 60f garage. Now I have removed 6 oz and it is working good but the watts are too high still. Frost line is good so may try removing some more before I do anything else. How does it sound with the 134? More or less noise than the r12? Alan I really can't tell any difference in the sound. I don't understand why? You sure could tell the difference more in my DR2 As for the floats the one old book I link recently stated that the floats normally did not need anything when changing refrigerants. It said that the liquid level would just be higher or lower whatever it takes to open the float. They do say 134a is more head pressure than R-12. I haven't noticed a drastic difference in the conversions I have done. |
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Post by coldspaces on Apr 7, 2014 4:37:47 GMT
Found a way to get the watts down to normal on the ball top. Just need to re-insulate with foam, add a door frame heater, re-calibrate the control and maybe put lower viscosity oil in it. Piece of cake lol.
Found it runs great as a freezer! If you don't mind maybe running in a vacuum like a CA (not as deep though). When I go home from Travis's today the ball top had still been cycling on the 134a and was down to 26f. I took the control sensing bulb loose from the evap and let her cook. The watts just kept dropping the lower the temp got. Even ended up with near the normal 150 watts at the end.
Here's the specs
Low side pressure
Box temp/F Watts in PSIG/ " vac
26 220 6
20 190 1"
18 180 3"
17 170 4"
15 166 5"
14 162 6"
13 158 6"
11 152 7"
At first I neglected to check the hi pressure but the highest it got was 95-96 at the end in a 59 F ambient.
With good insulation and the control set to cycle it may not run as far into a vacuum as I saw with it running steady. This is the first time I have seen this run this long, The ball started to get a little warm.
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Post by birkie on Apr 7, 2014 12:11:31 GMT
Huh - so you're pulling a vacuum with R134a, implying that the evaporator temps are less than -15F (if I'm reading the charts correctly)?
When it's running with its normal controls - what are the cycle times like? I'd also be curious to see the total kWh consumption over the course of a day compared to, say, SO2. With R134a, the compressor may be running at higher capacity (hence the usefulness of the restrictor tube to throttle the suction line, reducing compressor capacity at a slight loss of efficiency).
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