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Post by allan on Feb 12, 2014 1:43:11 GMT
Can anyone steer me to the patent info and a diagram picture of the CK evap?
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Post by ChrisJ on Feb 12, 2014 1:52:37 GMT
I believe this is it Allan. 2117861 Attachments:US2117861.pdf (442.22 KB)
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Post by allan on Feb 12, 2014 2:59:05 GMT
I believe this is it Allan. 2117861 Thanks for the rapid response! We can always count on you Chris. I am trying to work on the problem of oil return when changing the non monitor top fridges to new compressors with r134. There is a problem of oil return when retaining the original flooded type evap that had SO2 in it. I have an idea on how to possibly solve the problem by modifying the evap so it is no longer flooded. Unfortunately this drawing lacks the tank cross section drawing and detail. If you know of another let me know. Thanks
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Post by ChrisJ on Feb 12, 2014 3:11:03 GMT
I believe this is it Allan. 2117861 Thanks for the rapid response! We can always count on you Chris. I am trying to work on the problem of oil return when changing the non monitor top fridges to new compressors with r134. There is a problem of oil return when retaining the original flooded type evap that had SO2 in it. I have an idea on how to possibly solve the problem by modifying the evap so it is no longer flooded. Unfortunately this drawing lacks the tank cross section drawing and detail. If you know of another let me know. Thanks I'll trade you this for more pictures of the CA compressor. Attachments:
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Post by allan on Feb 12, 2014 3:24:20 GMT
Thanks for the rapid response! We can always count on you Chris. I am trying to work on the problem of oil return when changing the non monitor top fridges to new compressors with r134. There is a problem of oil return when retaining the original flooded type evap that had SO2 in it. I have an idea on how to possibly solve the problem by modifying the evap so it is no longer flooded. Unfortunately this drawing lacks the tank cross section drawing and detail. If you know of another let me know. Thanks I'll trade you this for more pictures of the CA compressor. It's a deal
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Post by ChrisJ on Feb 12, 2014 4:02:51 GMT
This may be a dumb idea but why wouldn't you be able to crack open a new compressor and come up with a way to mount it to the original springs inside the original compressor housing?
This way you no longer have a housing inside of a housing, you're simply using a new pump and motor. I'm sure you could plumb it to work with the original crank case and oil quantity. I would think mounting a modern compressor inside of the housing intact would automatically create cooling issues where just having the raw pump inside the old housing shouldn't.
I have to think there is plenty of room inside a CK machine to make an adapter plate to mount to those springs and bolt a new compressor to.
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Post by jhigdon2 on Feb 12, 2014 4:04:36 GMT
R12 units used evap with less internal volume tubes about half the size and tanks likewise much smaller. This could have been how they solved oil return issues using R12. Have a look at the FEA.
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Post by ChrisJ on Feb 12, 2014 4:23:19 GMT
R12 units used evap with less internal volume tubes about half the size and tanks likewise much smaller. This could have been how they solved oil return issues using R12. Have a look at the FEA. I had thought with these machines any refrigerant, even R134A would work with mineral oil as it doesn't rely on the refrigerant to carry the oil back to the compressor? It sounds like my understanding is incorrect?
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Post by jhigdon2 on Feb 12, 2014 4:51:09 GMT
I am only guessing but maybe they since R12 will carry mineral oil(unlike S02) and since the FEA units had a smaller compressor, then they were concerned about oil migration?? I don't know for sure. But from what I have seen, R134 is not miscable with mineral oil either. I assume that is the reason why (so far) the few CK units we have converted to R134 seem to be surviving.
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Post by jhigdon2 on Feb 12, 2014 5:01:20 GMT
I did mount the guts of a modern compressor inside a DR 2 unit once. It worked but it was noisy and performed poorly. Then I mounted a whole compressor inside a CK unit and Finally had success with extra oil added to system. It was extremely efficient and quiet. Cooling issues were not a problem either.
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Post by allan on Feb 12, 2014 5:18:46 GMT
I am only guessing but maybe they since R12 will carry mineral oil(unlike S02) and since the FEA units had a smaller compressor, then they were concerned about oil migration?? I don't know for sure. But from what I have seen, R134 is not miscable with mineral oil either. I assume that is the reason why (so far) the few CK units we have converted to R134 seem to be surviving. John we are trying to help a friend who is restoring non monitor top units with new compressors only. He is mounting the compressor in the original mount under the cabinet and adding a cap tube on the so2 systems and adjusting the cap on r12 systems that already have a cap tube. The new compressors are coming with POE oil and designed for 134. They run about six months on both type systems and then the compressor fails due to low oil. I think I can modify the existing evap to change it to a non flooded one and possibly correct this problem. We would also start out with an extra 10% increase in oil charge.
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Post by allan on Feb 12, 2014 5:21:35 GMT
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Post by jhigdon2 on Feb 12, 2014 5:47:59 GMT
Double the oil seemed to work for me. Also, as for the monitor tops I've experimented with.... The modern compressors don't have an unloader valve. So hard start kit solves this.
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Post by coldspaces on Feb 12, 2014 6:02:19 GMT
Very interesting thoughts here guys. I would think Chrisj's idea of mounting the new guts into the old housing could work. Sounds like jhigdon had mixed results though.
Alan's idea of less tank area is also intriguing. Not sure if it would cause liquid to get back to the compressor to easy? Might not mater with the proper charge adjustment. Small suction accumulator could possibly be added if needed. Not sure if it would reduce the total volume of the evap enough to be sure it would in turn reduce the volume of oil need enough. Great thinking going on here!!!
I was wondering today if a hole was drilled in the side of a new compressor so the top of the hole was at the top of the normal oil level how much of what size tube would have to be added in a loop around the compressor as an extra oil reservoir. Would take some work to do and I have not even tried to work out the size and length of tube need to hold a quart or so of oil. Just seemed like the main issue is the small oil charge of the new compressors, need a way to increase it.
Coldspaces
Edit: Looks like 2' of 1" I.D. tube holds about 10.4 oz of fluid. Would take a rather lager pipe to make an oil reserve.
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Post by jhigdon2 on Feb 12, 2014 6:31:04 GMT
I agree. There is great minds at work here. When converting an R12 system to R134 I think you have to lengthen cap tube a little and make the weight adjustment for the difference in density. But if these systems worked for 6 months, and had good performance then it may just need a little more oil. I have a little R22 ductless split heat pump at my business. The condenser unit is on the roof and with only 13oz of oil in the system it seems to survive year after year, even though the compressor is 5 or 6 feet above the indoor unit. It kinda puzzles me, but I guess it's proof that it can be done.
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