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Post by redtangox on Jun 28, 2021 0:37:19 GMT
Hi All, I’m looking for some advice. I’ve been working on a vintage Frigidaire for some time. When I acquired it, the wiring was shot, including the wire behind the cabinet for the light bulb. I had to remove the liner to replace all the electrical. Fast forward to today, and the evaporator and liner are installed. I hooked up temporary power to test the meter-miser, and it fires right up. After an hour, the unit did not cool, so I unhooked it. I assume I have a pinhole leak, and I’m going to use soapy bubbles to find it. Here is where I need advice. I’m theory, I’ll have to replace some copper tubing. Does anyone know the appropriate diameter replacement size? I don’t own a vacuum pump or gauges. Any recommendations on this? Will any set on Amazon work? Once acquired, I’ll need to hook up the pump, but I don’t have a service kit. I have a search Imperial Eastman 182f and I pray something pops up. Are there any other kits I can search for? I really don’t want a piercing tap and I would wait before installing one. After I get the kit and vacuum pump, I’m in new territory. I believe I should hook up the gauges, run the vacuum for a day+ and I’ll need to charge with new refrigerant. Should I use R134a? Buy two old cans of R12? Any help or guidance is much appreciated. Hopefully this will be a great learning experience so I can rescue another old machine.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 28, 2021 13:53:55 GMT
Hi All, I’m looking for some advice. I’ve been working on a vintage Frigidaire for some time. When I acquired it, the wiring was shot, including the wire behind the cabinet for the light bulb. I had to remove the liner to replace all the electrical. Fast forward and to today and the evaporator and liner are installed. I hooked up temporary power to test the meter-miser and fires right up. After an hour, the unit did not cooling, so I unhooked it and assume I have a pinhole leak. I’m going to use soapy bubbles to find it. Here is where I need advice. I’m theory, I’ll have to replace some copper tubing. Does anyone know the appropriate diameter replacement size? I don’t own a vacuum pump or gauges. Any recommendations on this? Will any set on Amazon work? Once acquired, I’ll need to hook up the pump, but I don’t have a service kit. I have a search Imperial Eastman 182f and I pray something pops up. Are there any other kits I can search for? I really don’t want a piercing tap and I would wait before installing one. After I get the kit and vacuum pump, I’m in new territory. I believe I should hook up the gauges, run the vacuum for a day+ and I’ll need to charge with new refrigerant. Should I use R134a? Buy two old cans of R12? Any help or guidance is much appreciated. Hopefully this will be a great learning experience so I can rescue another old machine. View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentView Attachment That's a very nice looking fridge! As far as the troubleshooting, I think you're on the right track. For the tubing, I doubt that a pinhole repair would require replacement of tubing, so you may not have to face that aspect of things. The issue will be, as you said, locating the leak. It may have leaked out over years, and there is no longer any pressure to see bubbles. It's getting harder and harder to get hermetic service kits. It seems that most of them get bought up as soon as they appear on eBay. You could wait for that, or possibly install a soldered-in service valve on the return line, as opposed to a piercing valve. The soldered in valves are more of a permanent and professional solution. They work like a tee-fitting, where you would cut the line and insert the tee, and then solder it into the newly cut line. If you do have to replace any lines, it's best to go with the same size, if possible. It's OK to go smaller or larger for an inch or two, for connection purposes, though. I would inspect the evaporator closely, for any puncture marks from a previous incorrect defrosting job. That could be the most likely area for leaks. Another possibility is that the compressor terminal seals are seeping and allowed the charge to get lost via that path. You would see oil around the terminals, if that were the case. For refrigerant, it is a poor choice to use R134A for these for a variety of reasons. The pressure is much higher than the unit is designed for; and the discharge temperature is also going to be excessive. Either go with R12 or R152A. And never use any sort of blended refrigerant because those contain propane and butane which will separate in the system and, worse, will soften and destroy the rubber seals in the compressor. Hope this gets you some ideas to go on! Sincerely, David
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Post by redtangox on Jun 28, 2021 17:10:55 GMT
Excellent advice; thank you for the reply! The refrigerant suggestion is invaluable.
This machine has come a long way from when I found it, and I'm determined to save it. I have some experience soldering, and the solder-in service valve might be my only option. I'll start gathering the supplies you suggest, and I hope to share a positive update.
To be continued...
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 28, 2021 17:39:17 GMT
Excellent advice; thank you for the reply! The refrigerant suggestion is invaluable. This machine has come a long way from when I found it, and I'm determined to save it. I have some experience soldering, and the solder-in service valve might be my only option. I'll start gathering the supplies you suggest, and I hope to share a positive update. To be continued... That's good! Feel free to keep us updated.
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Post by redtangox on Jul 9, 2021 22:09:11 GMT
I have an update on my fridge, but I've hit another speed bump. Everything is back together and I wanted to test the meter miser before I finish up the light and thermostat wiring. If you recall, the refrigerator did not get cold. After watching your videos David, I learned that only a small portion of the evaporator had frost, which I assume meant a low charge. The meter miser did run though. I now have gauges and learned it was a low charge with 30psi. I used the vacuum pump on the compressor to remove the R12, waited overnight and then charged it with a can R152A. The meter miser kicked on, but it sounded strange and it drew 7 amps, so I turned it off to avoid any damage. I assumed air or moisture entered during vacuum, so I used the vacuum pump again overnight. Today, I just added a new can of R152A (Dust-Off brand Electronics Compressed Gas). Meter Miser kicked on but drew 12 amps before I cut the power. I am baffled. Nothing has changed from the initial R12 run and the meter miser drew 2 amps at that time. I'm starting it with the RO81 Supco. I attached a picture of my gauge and the relay. Should I vacuum pump and repeat again? Thanks, Rich
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 9, 2021 23:22:42 GMT
Hi Rich. Sorry I have been on a work site and have little time for Internet stuff.
The high current draw almost sounds like a wiring error with the start-relay. How did you detemrine the R, S, and C of the new relay?
If not that, it could be that a major overcharge of refrigerant has happened. But that wouldn't cause overloading immediately. That would require the compressor to be fully warmed up before it overloaded things.
How long did it take for the current to get too high?
The compressor appears to be an R12 unit based on the weld seam at the top, and the factory service port located at the top of the compressor housing. There is a chance that it could have been some transitional model which looked like the R12 models but was designed for R114 which operates at a lower pressure. In that case, you can probably use R152A but it will require a reduced charge volume. Ideally, R1234ZE would be a better R114 replacement. Is there any legible nameplate with a refrigerant identification marking?
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Post by redtangox on Jul 10, 2021 0:24:50 GMT
No need to apologize. I know this is a hobby for you, and I appreciate your response. I'd rather be patient and cautious then potentially damage something. I hope you've been enjoying your latest work assignment. I can only imagine that you're the 'big gun' the company calls to help fix the seemingly un-fixable.
The R S and C were labeled on the relay, so I matched what I believe is the corresponding wiring on the meter miser. Yes, the fridge should be the same R12 DL-86P with the larger freezer you have. I believe you're currently looking for the door to this in the classified (I've been on the lookup up here for you).
I only charged the system with 1 can of R152A and the overload was immediate. As soon as I plug it in, my Kill-A-Watt equivalent reads the high draw. It's always possible that I did mix the wires up, so I'll bring out the multi-meter and start from scratch. I'll also get a photo of the plate by the condenser.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 10, 2021 0:58:00 GMT
No need to apologize. I know this is a hobby for you, and I appreciate your response. I'd rather be patient and cautious then potentially damage something. I hope you've been enjoying your latest work assignment. I can only imagine that you're the 'big gun' the company calls to help fix the seemingly un-fixable. The R S and C were labeled on the relay, so I matched what I believe is the corresponding wiring on the meter miser. Yes, the fridge should be the same R12 DL-86P with the larger freezer you have. I believe you're currently looking for the door to this in the classified (I've been on the lookup up here for you). I only charged the system with 1 can of R152A and the overload was immediate. As soon as I plug it in, my Kill-A-Watt equivalent reads the high draw. It's always possible that I did mix the wires up, so I'll bring out the multi-meter and start from scratch. I'll also get a photo of the plate by the condenser. Cool. I am a problem solver for the company I work for but sometimes the problems are caused by other peoples' stubbornness and ignorance! That is harder to fix than any technical problems! If the compressor is overcharged but otherwise everything is connected correctly, it will build up to an overload over a period of several minutes running. The immediate overload indicates an electrical problem. The compressor should have the three terminals facing the rear of the cabinet. When you face the rear of the cabinet, your left-most terminal is the Com terminal. The middle one is Start and the right-most one is Run. You can measure the resistance of them in order to verify. When used with an RO81, it will draw 10 amps or so for about 2 or 3 seconds, then settle down to about 2 amps. If it continues drawing high amps, there's something wrong with the wiring, or the RO81 may have an internal problem. This diagram shows how an R12 Meter- Miser and RO81 connect together. You can ignore the rest of the wiring and just focus on the Supco device and the compressor. Hope this helps! Sincerely, David
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Post by redtangox on Jul 10, 2021 2:46:45 GMT
Well I certainly feel foolish. I was convinced I had the motor terminals properly identified and I was correct there. My failure was mapping them to the Supco RO81. In my haste and negligence, I mistook the red wire as Start and White wire as Run. I am so embarrassed by my mistake, but I have learned an important lesson and I'll never let it happen again. Fortunately, the refrigerator fired right up after this mistake was corrected. I have two cans of R152A in the machine and she's humming along well. As promised, I attempted to snap a picture of the plate, but it has seen better days. Others have painted it black and lighted sandpapered the letters to bring them to a silver finish, so I may try that one day. I've added pictures in case anyone is interested. Also, I've included pictures of my next project. I really wanted a monitor top, but I had to save this 1962 GE Spacemaker TC-469 from the trash. The older gentlemen is the original owner and he's moving in with his daughter. He didn't want his beloved fridge being discarded, so I assumed ownership for a price too good to be true. It seems complete and even has the drip tray, but I haven't been able to locate any literature on it. If anyone has anything, please do pass it on.
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Post by redtangox on Jul 10, 2021 3:15:37 GMT
Cool. I am a problem solver for the company I work for but sometimes the problems are caused by other peoples' stubbornness and ignorance! That is harder to fix than any technical problems! If the compressor is overcharged but otherwise everything is connected correctly, it will build up to an overload over a period of several minutes running. The immediate overload indicates an electrical problem. The compressor should have the three terminals facing the rear of the cabinet. When you face the rear of the cabinet, your left-most terminal is the Com terminal. The middle one is Start and the right-most one is Run. You can measure the resistance of them in order to verify. When used with an RO81, it will draw 10 amps or so for about 2 or 3 seconds, then settle down to about 2 amps. If it continues drawing high amps, there's something wrong with the wiring, or the RO81 may have an internal problem. This diagram shows how an R12 Meter- Miser and RO81 connect together. You can ignore the rest of the wiring and just focus on the Supco device and the compressor. View AttachmentHope this helps! Sincerely, David Thank you for taking the time to put together that diagram! I've never been able to master the politics of people and it certainly is a harder problem to solve. I wouldn't have been able to resurrect this machine without you. If I can ever repay the favor in some way, I certainly will. Cheers, Rich
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 10, 2021 11:11:21 GMT
....... This diagram shows how an R12 Meter- Miser and RO81 connect together. You can ignore the rest of the wiring and just focus on the Supco device and the compressor..... Thank you for taking the time to put together that diagram! I've never been able to master the politics of people and it certainly is a harder problem to solve. I wouldn't have been able to resurrect this machine without you. If I can ever repay the favor in some way, I certainly will. Cheers, Rich Hi Rich. No problem about the diagram. That's one I have had for a long time and share as necessary. It's easy to make mistakes but when you take precautions such as you did; and notice the improper current draw; it's not likely to do damage. Totally agreed about how people are.... The Internet is full of self-unaware and rude many people are just out there to make others miserable. One good thing about the Internet world is; you can simply discard them like the chaff that they are. Sincerely, David
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Post by redtangox on Jul 16, 2021 19:55:07 GMT
Well I'm back again! The refrigerator is really taking shape and I am so pleased. I ran the unit overnight and I am concerned because the refrigerator is not cycling off. I dismantled the thermostat and put everything into the sonic cleaner. Everything seems to be in good order. The capillary tube does not appear to be broken anywhere. I put the entire thermostat in a freezer and then removed it. The billow did expand the contacts closed as it became warmer. I'm not certain if that's because the entire unit was in the freezer though. I reinstalled the thermostat and ran it on the C setting and I believe it cycled off. I examined my stem thermometer and the temperature read 19 degrees. Perhaps it's set improperly? Is it possible to make any adjustments? I only noticed it cycle off once, so perhaps the overload kicked in for some reason. When I turn off the unit on the dial, there is a stange sound from the evaporator. I attached a video and pictures of the internal temperature. IMG_7325.mov (18.66 MB)
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Post by jake on Jul 18, 2021 18:44:02 GMT
Check the routing of the thermostat feeler tube. I noticed in one of your pictures it goes up the side of the inside of the liner and clamps to the freezer. I think that's incorrect. I believe the feeler tube is supposed to be installed inside of the liner and follow the suction line to the freezer. Then when you clamp it down the end of the feeler tube should be under the clamp. I have a 1950 Deluxe model and that's how mine is set up.
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Post by jake on Jul 18, 2021 18:46:47 GMT
I'm sorry, I meant on the outside of the liner and follow the suction line to the freezer!
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Post by redtangox on Jul 19, 2021 3:30:49 GMT
I'm sorry, I meant on the outside of the liner and follow the suction line to the freezer! Thanks for the reply Jake! The thermo bulb is clamped to the accumulator on the right hand side of the freezer. I think this is how it came from the factory. I’ll get a picture tomorrow. I set the thermostats at C, which is the warmest setting. I sat with the unit and it will keep everything freezing and it does consistently cycle off, but my stem thermostat is reading about 19 degrees. So it is working, but I think it needs adjusting somewhere. Perhaps the placement is off as you suggest. I’ll grab a picture and post it.
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