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Post by bigdog1758 on Sept 19, 2019 16:51:22 GMT
Hi everyone, I just bought a CA and I am fascinated by it. I was in a large old style general store in east Texas that also sells antiques and I fell in love with it as soon as I saw it. I'd never even heard of a Monitor Top before. Paid too much from what I see online, but I'm still happy. It's in good shape and runs as the store owner showed me, but I haven't had the chance to really run it myself yet. I've pulled it apart and I'm taking care of some small things before it's put in it's place, like a sticking door handle and adjust the foot pedal...which I think is ingenious! Someone removed the i.d. tag (why would you do that??) but I'm told its a CA.
And, I have a couple of questions, of course. Both concern the "wax paper".
First....what is its exact purpose?? Is it there to channel any condensation? And, where does it rest? I mean, does it end in the "tray", or overlap it?
I was thinking about trying to make my own wax cloth as the original is pretty well shot...I've read up on it, but now I'm leaning toward 8 mil plastic as a substitute. I'm worried that if I don't do it right, it won't function correctly and I might cause rust damage.
I'd appreciate any help and advice and hope I can contribute to this fantastic forum, which I have already found a treasure trove.
Thanks!
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Post by turbokinetic on Sept 19, 2019 19:42:02 GMT
Hi everyone, I just bought a CA and I am fascinated by it. I was in a large old style general store in east Texas that also sells antiques and I fell in love with it as soon as I saw it. I'd never even heard of a Monitor Top before. Paid too much from what I see online, but I'm still happy. It's in good shape and runs as the store owner showed me, but I haven't had the chance to really run it myself yet. I've pulled it apart and I'm taking care of some small things before it's put in it's place, like a sticking door handle and adjust the foot pedal...which I think is ingenious! Someone removed the i.d. tag (why would you do that??) but I'm told its a CA. And, I have a couple of questions, of course. Both concern the "wax paper". First....what is its exact purpose?? Is it there to channel any condensation? And, where does it rest? I mean, does it end in the "tray", or overlap it? I was thinking about trying to make my own wax cloth as the original is pretty well shot...I've read up on it, but now I'm leaning toward 8 mil plastic as a substitute. I'm worried that if I don't do it right, it won't function correctly and I might cause rust damage. I'd appreciate any help and advice and hope I can contribute to this fantastic forum, which I have already found a treasure trove. Thanks!
Hi, very glad you've found the forum here and are enjoying your CA!
To verify it's a CA, you can check that the very top of the compressor. This is the central "dome" in the middle of the top part of the machine. If there is a round "bump" in the center of the dome, it's a CK model.
If there is one refrigerant line exiting the dome, towards the rear, it's a CA.
If there is one refrigerant line exiting the dome, and there is a very prominent "spiral" of tubing wrapped round the compressor dome (separate tubing with spaces between them) then it's a DR variant.
As for the "No Oxide" cloth, it was used to seal the insulation space against moisture. It should stick to the top surface of the cabinet outer wall, and then follow the top of the insulation blocks, and end on the top surface of the cabinet liner. I have replaced it with the wide "gorilla" duct tape. I'm not saying this is the best or only option; just it is very convenient and seems to work well. You can cut the tape to form a similar shape to the original cloth.
The type CA monitor top is possibly the most unique version. They had some reliability concerns when they were new, and GE went to great lengths to explain the limitations in the service literature. I highly recommend you read up on it for yourself. 
Just to point out a few very important points which may not be emphasized enough in the manual...
1 - These require a heater to be in operation at all times. This is critical to ensure the oil in the base of the compressor is the hottest part of the system. If this isn't the hottest part of the system, refrigerant will become trapped in the oil and can affect the lubrication of the mechanical parts. The heater is easy to test and relatively easy to replace if needed. It can result is a seized compressor if it's bad.
2 - The control switch is more than just a thermostat. There is also a motor overload protection (a type of circuit breaker) inside the control. It is never OK to bypass the control, even for testing. If this is done, the compressor can be burned out very quickly.
3 - The refrigeration system uses a low pressure refrigerant which operates at less than atmospheric pressure. Any leaks will draw in air. Also, the refrigerant will slowly over time decay and release noncondensable gases. Air or noncondensable gases can cause the machine to draw a lot of excess power, run hot, cool poorly, or even seize up. The manual shows how to check for this and how to remove it.
If you have a way to share pictures, it would be great to see!
Hope this is helpful! Sincerely, David
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Post by bigdog1758 on Sept 19, 2019 20:38:28 GMT
Wow, thanks for all the info! I haven't included any photos yet, as it's in two pieces for cleaning and I'm a bit embarrassed to show it that way. I should have it up in a week or so. I was very excited to purchase a unit that runs...till I read on the forum how even running units can still have LOTS of problems. Worries me as it was only running in the store about 45 mins when I saw it. So, now I need to see how it cycles. I'm not a refrigeration guy, and when I read the complex (to me) repairs that some of the members explain....I'm lost! So, I'll just have to wait and see how it runs and my anticipation has turned to a bit of dread. I just received a manual and I'm reading though it bit by bit. We're planning on setting up a "vintage" style kitchen (eventually), and although this won't be the primary fridge, it will be used with our vintage stove. Thanks again for the quick response and the good information and thanks for the warm welcome. |
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Post by coldspaces on Sept 19, 2019 21:56:47 GMT
Good luck and welcome! David gave you a good overview so I won't add much. A pic sure would help us identify what you have.
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Post by cablehack on Sept 19, 2019 23:26:18 GMT
Since the compressor runs and the system hasn't been open to the atmosphere, it means you're off to a good start. Checking and if necessary replacing the oil heater does not require any special skill. More than likely it will need the non-condensible gas purged (the reason why GE stopped making the CA), but the instructions for this make it a simple procedure, provided they are followed exactly. The Bristol key for opening the charge valve is still available. The only remaining question is the condition of the float valve. This will be evident in how good or bad the cycling times are. But, as others have said, we need to confirm it's a CA and not the similar looking CK.
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Post by bigdog1758 on Sept 20, 2019 13:02:45 GMT
Ok....I looked at it closer last night, and reading the response from David, it DOES have a bump on top of the compressor dome. So, it appears to be a CK.....
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Post by turbokinetic on Sept 20, 2019 13:23:58 GMT
Ok....I looked at it closer last night, and reading the response from David, it DOES have a bump on top of the compressor dome. So, it appears to be a CK..... That's a good finding! The CK is much more user-friendly from a maintenance standpoint.
With the CK, you need to be careful with the lines between the top and the evaporator coil. This seems to be a common breakage point on these. Probably this is because the lines are small in diameter and very easy to snag on the edge of the cabinet while installing the top.
If a line breaks, there will be a release of sulphur dioxide refrigerant. If this happens, ventilate the area and wait for it to dissipate. Don't trash the fridge, because this is very fixable and the CK is compatible with an easily available replacement refrigerant.
Also, the CK has no heater, and as such there is no waiting after plugging it in, before startup. Just plug it in, hit the switch, and it's 'off to the races' so to speak
The CK scotch-yoke compressor is arguably one of the most reliable compressors ever engineered for domestic fridge use.
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Post by bigdog1758 on Sept 20, 2019 21:22:36 GMT
Thank you! Good to hear that! I was worried....I plugged it in for a half hour or so when I first brought it home, then later read on the forum how dangerous it is on a CA not letting the oil heat up first. Whew!
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Post by ckfan on Sept 21, 2019 15:06:21 GMT
Yes, CKs are pretty much trouble free. At least compared to the CA and DR models. There are a few things that can go wrong but it’s old! Usually they run just fine though. Don’t be alarmed if you hear very strange gurgling noises that sound loud for a few seconds. When they have been sitting a while it is normal to hear some strange noises after you run it for say 30 minutes or so. It’s hard to describe the noise but you’ll understand what I’m talking about once you hear it. I think it has to do with the oil pump (yes, they have an automotive style pump!) sucks up globs of liquid refrigerant not vaporizing as it’s trapped in the oil or maybe globs of thicker oil itself. I’m not sure.
Another noise that is very odd and somewhat scary is a very loud bang that comes from the float a few minutes after you first start it up. I honestly have no idea why this happens other than the float gets stuck from sitting idle too long and then pops back into life. It is very surprising when it happens and once it does happen you hear what sounds like a toilet dumping it’s water into the sewer stack.
Of course these strange things only happen sometimes. Not all machines exhibit this strange behavior and I have never seen it be an issue. I have a ball top that when the float popped (about 15 minutes after running it thinking everything was fine) it popped so hard it knocked the pictures that I had set on it over! I honestly thought it would break a line but it didn’t.
In other words, they have strange personalities but will quickly go to normal operation (usually) once you start running them.
Replacing the wiring is almost always necessary. There is a guide in the CK section on how to do this. Replacing the top seal between the unit and the cabinet is also recommended along with the door seal.
Those three things are the most important maintenance items with these.
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Post by bigdog1758 on Sept 24, 2019 20:44:57 GMT
Thank you very much for the information. I appreciate any and all advice, comments and recommendations!
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