|
|
Post by turbokinetic on Sept 9, 2018 22:20:48 GMT
Hey folks. It's been quite quiet here lately. Seems like a good time to introduce a new project!
I travel extensively for my work and for fun. This past week had me in the Corpus Christi, TX area. I had a work assignment here about 6 months ago, and stopped at an antiques store along the way. They had an old Kelvinator chilled water fountain in a back room. It had been a part of some offices in that building in years past. I looked at it but didn't know what to offer for it and also didn't have time or a way to carry it since I was in a rental car and had flown into the area. This is where it was: 
Fast forward to now, and I was in the area in a pickup truck. The shop proprietor had given me his number last time so I texted and called. He arranged to meet me at the shop as they were "technically" closed due to hurricane damage to the building. We did the deal and loaded the fountain in the back of my work truck, where I covered it wit a tarp and strapped it in for the long haul.
So, today I transferred it to my car and it will be headed to Alabama soon!
Notice the air grille is stamped out in a repeating "K" style for Kelvinator?
.jpg)
Got a pretty hefty compressor in there! There is quite a bit of rust, so hopefully the system isn't rusted out and leaked.
.jpg)
I see an instruction sheet still in there! Will try to preserve that the best I can.
.jpg)
Thoughts?
Sincerely, David
|
|
|
|
Post by elec573 on Sept 10, 2018 4:49:28 GMT
Sounds like an interesting project.
|
|
|
|
Post by ajc31980 on Sept 10, 2018 11:00:11 GMT
Yeah it has been rather quiet on here. My project is on hold till I get refrigerant. I’m sure I’ll be posting when I do. :-)
That’s a neat water cooler ! There where ones very smiler to that in the Junior high building that I went to. It was an older building that sadly no longer exists. Half of the building was built in the late 30’s and the other half was built in the 70’s. It was almost 2 completely different worlds walking from one side to the other. The older half had water fountains very similar to if not the same as the one you have. Hope you can bring that one back to its former glory :-).
|
|
|
|
Post by ckfan on Sept 10, 2018 11:58:27 GMT
I’ve seen one very similar to that at the college I went to. It was a building built in the 60s and still had a period correct kelvinator fountain that worked very well. ICE cold water. There was also an ancient oasis fountain on campus. Seems like the old ones did keep the water colder and didn’t cycle on and off 59 times an hour.
|
|
|
|
Post by turbokinetic on Sept 10, 2018 12:59:10 GMT
I’ve seen one very similar to that at the college I went to. It was a building built in the 60s and still had a period correct kelvinator fountain that worked very well. ICE cold water. There was also an ancient oasis fountain on campus. Seems like the old ones did keep the water colder and didn’t cycle on and off 59 times an hour. Interesting about the performance difference. There may be a large amount of metal in the heat exchanger part of this. I used an overhead crane to load it in the car trunk. The center of gravity with it laying down, is roughly the middle of the unit. The compressor is in the very bottom; so there is something in the top that's almost as heavy. Yeah it has been rather quiet on here. My project is on hold till I get refrigerant. I’m sure I’ll be posting when I do. :-) That’s a neat water cooler ! There where ones very smiler to that in the Junior high building that I went to. It was an older building that sadly no longer exists. Half of the building was built in the late 30’s and the other half was built in the 70’s. It was almost 2 completely different worlds walking from one side to the other. The older half had water fountains very similar to if not the same as the one you have. Hope you can bring that one back to its former glory :-). Yeah it's a shame that people aren't willing to do what it takes to keep the old buildings around. I did get a Kelvinator compressor from a water fountain that was taken out of a school years ago. Sadly, I couldn't salvage more of the system. It was a remote chiller in a closet behind the two water fountains. The fountains were porcelain and had been broken. This one doesn't seem to be in too bad of shape. I think the Kelvinator emblem will be the most difficult part to restore, actually. The outer shell is just painted; and the top is still in good shape. Sounds like an interesting project. Thanks! I'm sure it will be unusual. That is why I was interested in it, since it's something I haven't had before. 
|
|
|
|
Post by jake on Sept 10, 2018 16:30:43 GMT
That's a really neat water oooler! Inside you'll find a tank that holds a few gallons of water. I believe the tank is also the evaporator. The condenser will be fan cooled and most likely clogged up with dust and dirt. That's usually what causes these to stop chilling the water. The condenser is usually against the side panel with the fan pushing air through it. The design makes it very difficult to clean the condenser so most companies or schools don't bother. I've seen some that have refrigerant tubing wrapped around the drain pipe too. Not sure why that's done. Can't wait to see your progress on this very interesting project!
|
|
|
|
Post by turbokinetic on Sept 10, 2018 19:28:14 GMT
That's a really neat water oooler! Inside you'll find a tank that holds a few gallons of water. I believe the tank is also the evaporator. The condenser will be fan cooled and most likely clogged up with dust and dirt. That's usually what causes these to stop chilling the water. The condenser is usually against the side panel with the fan pushing air through it. The design makes it very difficult to clean the condenser so most companies or schools don't bother. I've seen some that have refrigerant tubing wrapped around the drain pipe too. Not sure why that's done. Can't wait to see your progress on this very interesting project! Thanks Jake! This one probably does have quite a large water tank in it, as evidenced by the heft it has at the top!
Many of these have a heat exchanger in the drain circuit as well. That way, as the cold water that you don't drink flows down the drain; it cools the incoming water supply. I guess that the same principle is used to cool the refrigerant as well; in the units you've dealt with.
I'm sorry I haven't been able to post better pictures. My time is a very limited due to work obligations. I was racing against an approaching rain shower while loading the cooler into my car from my work truck. I don't have a picture of the condenser, which on this one is at the back. It has a Frigidaire-like steel tube-and-fin condenser. It's almost as large as the entire rear panel. There could be a fan inside, but I haven't seen it just peering inside there.
|
|
|
|
Post by birkie on Sept 11, 2018 1:34:54 GMT
Very nice! It has a vague post art deco feel to it, so I put in my guess for some time in the 1940s, probably earlier in the decade based on style alone. The rust on the bottom doesn't look _too_bad in the photos. Fingers crossed!
|
|
|
|
Post by turbokinetic on Sept 11, 2018 1:38:37 GMT
Very nice! It has a vague post art deco feel to it, so I put in my guess for some time in the 1940s, probably earlier in the decade based on style alone. The rust on the bottom doesn't look _too_bad in the photos. Fingers crossed! Thanks. Yeah, the rust worries me a little, since the sides and top of the compressor look worse. Hope it's not rusted through!
|
|
|
|
Post by coldspaces on Sept 11, 2018 3:44:42 GMT
It takes a lot to rust through a compressor shell, but I have seen it. How they run that long with low/no super heat I don't know. Nice project you have there. I say if the condenser tubes have survived the compressor should have too. Good luck! Is it R-12?
|
|
|
|
Post by turbokinetic on Sept 11, 2018 12:25:04 GMT
It takes a lot to rust through a compressor shell, but I have seen it. How they run that long with low/no super heat I don't know. Nice project you have there. I say if the condenser tubes have survived the compressor should have too. Good luck! Is it R-12? Thanks! Yeah it does take a lot to rust through a compressor shell; but with the limited visibility through the condenser fins.... the top of the compressor looks pretty raunchy! I know it was flooded by a hurricane, but I think there could have been an ongoing potable water leak dripping on the compressor's top before the hurricane damage. Seems like the top is worse than the lower areas that certainly were in the hurricane flood.
As for the low / no superheat, I think the compressor probably has some design elements in it to counteract that. I remember reading about some designs for fridge compressors that seem to have included ways to prevent damage from liquid coming back in small amounts. There was one with low-side compressor shell where the refrigerant returning to the compressor is routed through a few passes of tubing which is in contact with the stator core. So by the time the refrigerant actually exits this tubing and enters the compressor shell, there is some superheat by that point. I can't remember whose it was, but it was a vertical compressor similar in shape to the one in this water cooler.
Of course without taking the compressor apart, it's hard to know how it's done exactly!
I would assume it's R12 but haven't had a chance to take the first screw out of it yet! 
|
|
|
|
Post by Travis on Sept 11, 2018 16:08:19 GMT
I remember those. They were everywhere. I think the ADA coupled with the enviro-nazis played a big part in the obsolescence of many old buildings. It was cheaper to build new and get all new than to renovate old. Not to mention, that unit is likely R12 and you're going to hell to even think about using it.
|
|
|
|
Post by elec573 on Sept 13, 2018 5:17:43 GMT
I remember those in high school and the water was always cold . Never thought how it was made that way . I guess my question is what is now allowed or used for refrigeration?
And what is not or we’ll be phased out ?
|
|
|
|
Post by turbokinetic on Sept 13, 2018 13:50:40 GMT
I remember those in high school and the water was always cold . Never thought how it was made that way . I guess my question is what is now allowed or used for refrigeration? And what is not or we’ll be phased out ? In general if you have an appliance, with any refrigerant, you're allowed to use it. The legal concerns are with selling refrigerants in containers for recharging things; and with intentionally releasing refrigerants into the environment. Talking about refrigerant phase outs tends to get political, and I really don't want this thread to go in that direction.
|
|
|
|
Post by turbokinetic on Sept 14, 2018 1:36:38 GMT
Well, after carefully typing a detailed reply, the forum lost it. So, forgive the brevity at this time since I am retyping it.
I got this unit home and did a preliminary check-out of it. Very interesting item indeed!
.JPG)
Looks like Lord Kelvinator has become a touch battle weary! .JPG)
Before ZIP codes were a thing. That makes it late 50's or earlier, if I am not mistaken. .JPG)
Need to order the correct accessories! Thankfully the decal is still in place. .JPG)
Unbroken Ebco bubbler valve knob. .JPG)
Interesting.... read this.... it could have had an OPEN DRIVE, DC MOTOR POWERED cooling unit! Talk about something to be on the lookout for. That would be a gotta have item. .JPG)
The compressor has its original Nash Kelvinator metal nameplate. Runs like a top. .JPG)
The top is genuine Armco Stainless... .JPG)
After removing the top cover, I found this. .JPG)
That's a tar covering over a fully filled compartment. It's fully filled with... .JPG)
Looks like ground cork crumbs! And lots of them. They used paper, tar, cork, and other natural materials to make it. Use what you got, as they say. .JPG)
Half a box full of cork chips! .JPG)
Does it cool? Frosted the tubing all the way up the water tank and to the accumulator... That took about 20 minutes. The tank is solid copper and had quite a bit of thermal mass.
.JPG)
So, I think I found the reason they stopped using it. Notice the drain pipe is separated from the fitting where the external pipe connects? Someone didn't read the sticker on the unit and didn't order the Ebco drain kit. They rammed an iron pipe fitting in too far and broke the brass tube. That will require some brazing to fix it. .JPG)
Interestingly, the upright pipe, open at the top with the coil around it is a heat exchanger. The fresh water flows in at the bottom of the outer coil of tubing. The drain water flows around a spiral inner part of the heat exchanger. The cold water that didn't get drank, goes down the drain and cools the incoming water before it goes into the tank where the refrigerant coils cool it. I'm sure this makes it a lot more efficient.
And a video with more details!
|
|
