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Post by ajc31980 on Dec 16, 2018 7:56:26 GMT
Just and update on the 50 watt heater. Its now been installed for about 13 hours and It’s sorta like I suspected. The fridge is kinda of acting like I have it over charged. The frost line is to high. It’s hard to see in this pic but the top right header has a new line of frost almost to the top. And the run times have started to suffer. 4:20 on and 8 min off. So 50 watts is probably over kill. I’m going to put the 40 watt back in and monitor things for a few days. I’m also going try putting the heater on a dimmer and seeing how things act with different wattages.
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Post by turbokinetic on Dec 16, 2018 16:43:06 GMT
One thing to remember, the purpose of the heater isn't to keep the oil "hot." the purpose is to keep it significantly hotter than the condenser coil and float chamber. This is going to ensure the refrigerant choses the cooler areas such as the condenser and float chamber in which to condense. The hotter the condenser is, the hotter the oil must stay to keep refrigerant out of it.
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Post by cablehack on Dec 17, 2018 0:57:00 GMT
I’ve been thinking today about how I could make the 40 watt heater run at different wattages . Say have a switch that could make it run 30 or even 20 watts during the summer when the house is hotter. I’m thinking for a test run I should be able to use a dimmer switch. But for a more permanent setup I’d like to put a toggle switch with a resistor? Figure I have to replace the original rubber heater plug with something why not make a cap with a little toggle switch in the center ? That way I could flip it one way for winter and one way for summer. And the added plus of not really altering the refrigerator for the purpose of adding a switch. Something I definitely wouldn’t want to do. I’m thinking a resistor may heat up and cause excess heat in the area under the deck. So that could be a problem as well. I’m welcoming anyone’s thoughts on this idea. 🙂 A simple way to make a resistive load like a heater run at half power is to connect a diode in series with it. When a resistive load is fed with a sine wave (such as that from the AC mains), it's the area under the curve that is the heating power, so by removing half of the sine wave, heating power is exactly half.
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Post by ajc31980 on Dec 17, 2018 4:20:22 GMT
I’ve been thinking today about how I could make the 40 watt heater run at different wattages . Say have a switch that could make it run 30 or even 20 watts during the summer when the house is hotter. I’m thinking for a test run I should be able to use a dimmer switch. But for a more permanent setup I’d like to put a toggle switch with a resistor? Figure I have to replace the original rubber heater plug with something why not make a cap with a little toggle switch in the center ? That way I could flip it one way for winter and one way for summer. And the added plus of not really altering the refrigerator for the purpose of adding a switch. Something I definitely wouldn’t want to do. I’m thinking a resistor may heat up and cause excess heat in the area under the deck. So that could be a problem as well. I’m welcoming anyone’s thoughts on this idea. 🙂 A simple way to make a resistive load like a heater run at half power is to connect a diode in series with it. When a resistive load is fed with a sine wave (such as that from the AC mains), it's the area under the curve that is the heating power, so by removing half of the sine wave, heating power is exactly half. Yes! and thank you 😁 . I’d never thought of looking at it that way. I was stuck on resistance. I’m getting way to forgetful or have just forgotten most anything I learned back in high school electronics class lol. I feel like my brains getting a reboot ... haha. Heaven help me if I tried to restore and vintage radio right now lol. It would be a rougher ride than I remember haha. Thanks again. AJ
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Post by ajc31980 on Dec 17, 2018 4:30:19 GMT
I’ve been playing with the dimmer switch idea today ... with the dimmer switch I can get a variance of 37 W down to 22 W according to the readings I get from the Kill-a-watt meter. So far... strange as it may sound ... 31 watts seems to be the magic number. It’s kinda hard to believe that small amount would make such a change. I won’t know for sure until after next weekend when I have a few days in a row off for Christmas . I don’t want leave the fridge running like this when I can’t be around to watch it. Just not comfortable leaving the whole dimmer switch set up unattended for 10 hours a day lol.
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Post by ajc31980 on Dec 27, 2018 21:47:39 GMT
Hi everyone! So I’ve been playing with different heater wattages over the last week. And basically ... though things seemed promising at first ... the CA has settled into its usual pattern. It chatters through the whole run cycle. It starts out quiet though. 30 seconds in. It starts chattering. The frost lines what I’d call normal about half way up the right header. And the cycle times are good. 3min on and 9 off. Box temp is 35/36. Room temp is 72/73F. One thing I’ve noticed... and don’t think I’ve mentioned cause I can’t find it any place in this thread... is that the back of the evaporator gets a spot that doesn’t frost up. It’s about the size of the palm of my hand. It’s something that usually shows up after a week of running . It’s on the inside bottom back of the evaporator. But the outside bottom is completely frosted. So maybe there’s some kind of clog or it’s the float sticking and starving the evaporator. EDIT: this is how it sounds youtu.be/--yDySgs5yYSo I’m thinking. As I’ve thought from the beginning.... but tried to avoid ... do to my lack of experience... and equipment.... that I need to examine the float needle and seat. I have a feeling my wallets going to be hurting lol. I think I’ve watched enough of David’s videos on YouTube to get feel for doing the soldering work. And I think I can handle it. It’s just not something I’ve really done before. I also have idea of what kind of torch I’d need along with solder and flux. The torch set would have to be something small and portable. David had given me some suggestions a wile back. But I’m also wondering what everyone else has used on there projects. Another thought is. If it turns out that it would need a cap tube conversion... I read that the cap tube would need to be 120 inches of .031 cap tube ? Or is it 40 inches of .031 cap tube for R123? The reason I ask this is because under the cap tube thread 40 inches as final recommendation. But under the Guinea pig thread he settled on 120 inches. If it’s 120 inches .. could I hide the cap tube up under the deck some place ? It’s not the end of the world to have that all coiled up along side the evaporator but I’d prefer it to be out of site.
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Post by birkie on Dec 28, 2018 15:25:50 GMT
Soldering will be fine, I don't think you'd need much more than a benz-o-matic torch. A TS8000 with plain ol' propane makes quick work of soldering stay Brite 8 on 3/8" tubing, in my experience.
But as far as a fix to the rattling, I don't have a theory in my head that would explain why a cap tube would fix the rattling, but then again I haven't studied CAs much. If it does, that would be very interesting.
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Post by ajc31980 on Dec 28, 2018 19:08:14 GMT
Soldering will be fine, I don't think you'd need much more than a benz-o-matic torch. A TS8000 with plain ol' propane makes quick work of soldering stay Brite 8 on 3/8" tubing, in my experience. But as far as a fix to the rattling, I don't have a theory in my head that would explain why a cap tube would fix the rattling, but then again I haven't studied CAs much. If it does, that would be very interesting. Thanks for the advice on soldering :-) My goal isn’t to totally get rid of the rattle because it seems to be a normal thing for the machines to have. I guess what I’m trying to do is figure out why it will run fairly quiet for the first day or 2 with some intermittent rattling ( seems to be the norm ? ) and then turn to a constant rattle until the next time it’s shut down and defrosted. Then add in the odd patch of none frosted area on inside bottom of the evaporator. It’s actually a bit of a frustrating puzzle. It always starts out good but then ends up chattering away again with in a week. That’s why I’ve jokingly said in the past that it likes to fool me in thinking it’s ok lol. Just as a side note/ reminder these are symptoms that machine has had from the very beginning when it was still charged with MF.
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Post by ckfan on Dec 28, 2018 19:53:09 GMT
I’ll let the CA experts chime in here but I don’t think it’s normal to have it rattle all the time. I know that both of my CAs rattle when first started when they are cold. After a while though they both sound buttery smooth.
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Post by cablehack on Dec 28, 2018 20:11:28 GMT
My goal isn’t to totally get rid of the rattle because it seems to be a normal thing for the machines to have. Only when there's been a change of room temperature, and for a short time. They should run very quiet normally until they need purging. It's 120" of .031" cap tube for R123. I'll edit the posting in the CA section to make this clearer. (The 40" of .031 was from an earlier experiment and I seem not to have updated the posting once the final length was arrived at).
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Post by turbokinetic on Dec 28, 2018 22:08:22 GMT
Soldering will be fine, I don't think you'd need much more than a benz-o-matic torch. A TS8000 with plain ol' propane makes quick work of soldering stay Brite 8 on 3/8" tubing, in my experience. But as far as a fix to the rattling, I don't have a theory in my head that would explain why a cap tube would fix the rattling, but then again I haven't studied CAs much. If it does, that would be very interesting.
I think that for soldering tubing only, a MAPP Bernz-O-Matic would be sufficient. However, it will not safely solder the line back into the evaporator. The heat is too diffuse and the evaporator its self will be overheated over a wider area than it needs to be.
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Post by cablehack on Dec 29, 2018 5:49:22 GMT
Soldering will be fine, I don't think you'd need much more than a benz-o-matic torch. A TS8000 with plain ol' propane makes quick work of soldering stay Brite 8 on 3/8" tubing, in my experience. But as far as a fix to the rattling, I don't have a theory in my head that would explain why a cap tube would fix the rattling, but then again I haven't studied CAs much. If it does, that would be very interesting.
I think that for soldering tubing only, a MAPP Bernz-O-Matic would be sufficient. However, it will not safely solder the line back into the evaporator. The heat is too diffuse and the evaporator its self will be overheated over a wider area than it needs to be.
I use oxy-propane Bernz-O-Matic and it's fine for even the 1/2" low side evaporator tubing, if you have cut it and are using a joiner to reattach. The catch is the oxygen cylinders last a very short time so you must have everything ready to go once the torch is lit. Certainly for cap tube installation it's sufficient.
Incidentally, the MAPP of today is not what it was when I started working on these fridges in 2012. There were apparently some nasty accidents, and the so called MAPP gas you get now is a dumbed down version. Not a lot difference between it and butane as far as I can tell, or maybe I just have crappy torches, but the Fat Boy MAPP was quite good in comparison.
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Post by elec573 on Dec 29, 2018 6:13:09 GMT
I would concur with cablehack, the map gas is not the same . I’ve used it for copper pipe water lines and was surprised at how much it took to do its job.,
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Post by ajc31980 on Dec 29, 2018 8:13:41 GMT
My goal isn’t to totally get rid of the rattle because it seems to be a normal thing for the machines to have. Only when there's been a change of room temperature, and for a short time. They should run very quiet normally until they need purging. It's 120" of .031" cap tube for R123. I'll edit the posting in the CA section to make this clearer. (The 40" of .031 was from an earlier experiment and I seem not to have updated the posting once the final length was arrived at).
Thanks for clearing that up :-) I kinda figured it was 120” but wanted to make sure.
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Post by ajc31980 on Dec 29, 2018 8:35:58 GMT
Ok. First thank you everyone for your input on both the soldering and the rattle :-) So from reading all the comments. It seems the oxy- propane and stay brite 8 is fine for soldering the lines. Would this be suitable ? m.lowes.com/pd/BernzOmatic-Cutting-Welding-and-Brazing-Torch-Kit/50126405But if I would need to do any soldering on the evaporator it’s self I would need something different? Like Oxy-acetylene ?
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