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Post by birkie on Jul 13, 2018 3:16:13 GMT
Sorry, on the road with limited cell coverage. Have not seen the video yet. 5:47 "on" time over a 13:50 time period is way off. That's over a 40% duty cycle! Something is very wrong. The temperatures of the evaporator look fine; it should pull down to the low to mid single digits, then turn on again when they reach the upper teens or lower 20s or so. The entire header should be frosted if it has been working that hard. A "normal" duty cycle would be something along the lines of 25-30% with the cabinet pulled down to the low 30s in n a room in the low 80s. With the higher capacity of R152a, I'd expect a "normal for R152a" duty cycle to be less; like 20% or so. So to me, it's running twice as much as it should, and struggling to maintain a feeble 4OF cabinet temp. So either the cabinet load is really high, or the refrigeration capacity is really low. I highly doubt a control issue. Given the seemingly "normal" temperature readings of the evaporator (it is not defrosting before it kicks back on, right?), I'd suspect the cabinet. First, make sure the light is turning off when you close the door  Second, I'd recommend carefully removing the bottom textolite strip and peeking at the insulation. You mentioned seeing some condensation. Was this on an exterior surface? Thet typically don't do that, so it would strongly point to degraded insulation if it is |
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Post by ablock on Jul 13, 2018 5:03:51 GMT
This looks pretty factory to me but who knows. I slipped a piece of plastic behind the tube and now I'm getting 34 degrees in the cabinet, but also 45 minutes of runtime in an hour and 20 of run. Maybe it was pulling down but I'll check it in a few hours to see if it settles into a more regular cycle.   |
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Post by ablock on Jul 13, 2018 5:15:32 GMT
Sorry, on the road with limited cell coverage. Have not seen the video yet. 5:47 "on" time over a 13:50 time period is way off. That's over a 40% duty cycle! Something is very wrong. The temperatures of the evaporator look fine; it should pull down to the low to mid single digits, then turn on again when they reach the upper teens or lower 20s or so. The entire header should be frosted if it has been working that hard. A "normal" duty cycle would be something along the lines of 25-30% with the cabinet pulled down to the low 30s in n a room in the low 80s. With the higher capacity of R152a, I'd expect a "normal for R152a" duty cycle to be less; like 20% or so. So to me, it's running twice as much as it should, and struggling to maintain a feeble 4OF cabinet temp. So either the cabinet load is really high, or the refrigeration capacity is really low. I highly doubt a control issue. Given the seemingly "normal" temperature readings of the evaporator (it is not defrosting before it kicks back on, right?), I'd suspect the cabinet. First, make sure the light is turning off when you close the door Second, I'd recommend carefully removing the bottom textolite strip and peeking at the insulation. You mentioned seeing some condensation. Was this on an exterior surface? Thet typically don't do that, so it would strongly point to degraded insulation if it is I'll pull the textolite this weekend and see the insulation but I've covered it completely with packing tape. The light turns off when the door closes, when it's on an off cycle it pulls zero watts from the wall. I ran an IR over the cabinet and got nothing unusual, no more than a 1-2 degree difference all over. My other fridge, if the door is kept open by mistake, I get a puddle of water on the floor under it. I see no condensate on the exterior of unit, and just a small bit on the door textolite strip at the bottom. Right now after messing with the bellows tube, its on setting 4, at 36 degrees cabinet and 10 evaporator and 5 minutes into a cycle and the dome temp is 125 in an 80 degree room, which is considerably hotter than it was running before. It's hard to test all these factors since opening the door throws off the temp by 20 degrees almost instantly. My probe thermometer won't register below about 20 degrees so to check the evaporator, it has to be opened. |
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Post by elec573 on Jul 13, 2018 5:19:07 GMT
Ok you definitely have outside air getting into cabinet. Mine takes 3 to 6 months to get that much frost on evaporator. Mine is in an air condition house at around 71 degrees
But I think that’s still to much frost .
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Post by Travis on Jul 13, 2018 5:29:43 GMT
That's way too much frost for the time you've had the unit running. You either have a top gasket or door gasket breach or you have a lot of wet insulation in the cabinet causing the frost to accumulate that fast.
I have had my CK1 running in my kitchen for months with an original fairly decent gasket. The frost accumulation is just now to the point of embarrassment.
Every time you change a setting, you must allow time for the unit to react. I might even go far as measure the cabinet temp and then tape the door shut for a day and measure the temp again. If the cabinet temp dropped, you have a door gasket issue.
I am betting of wet cabinet insulation unfortunately. It's just not good practice to run these things in non-conditioned spaces following the repair. I have done the same thing myself to Ray's CG, right Ray?
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Post by ablock on Jul 13, 2018 5:43:18 GMT
Ok you definitely have outside air getting into cabinet. Mine takes 3 to 6 months to get that much frost on evaporator. Mine is in an air condition house at around 71 degrees But I think that’s still to much frost . Understood. Where would it be coming from? All the seals are new and the inner box is one piece so it must be coming from under the textolite. The panel under the door has some rust damage, I'm not sure how to take that off. The top itself is warm to the touch when it's running, Mine unfortunately is in a 90 degree garage with 88% humidity. It took it about 12 minutes to pull from 55 degrees down 36 with the last door opening. I taped up the any other edges just to see if that helps. Is there a disassembly guide somewhere for the body panels to check the insulation? I'm willing to replace it with something to improve efficiency. |
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Post by Travis on Jul 13, 2018 5:53:21 GMT
I take that back, it's not too much frost for a unit running in a 90 degree garage with 88% humidity and possibly an air breach. I turn off my units before the weather gets to that point.
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Post by ablock on Jul 13, 2018 6:56:08 GMT
Here's a video of 90% of a run cycle. It runs for almost 15 minutes to go from 38 to 34. Exterior cabinet temp is 82 all across the front and the dome temp when running is 123. It occasionally will gurgle but makes a series of splashing sounds at the beginning. youtu.be/De2tyhKXP5k |
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Post by elec573 on Jul 13, 2018 17:31:55 GMT
That is a lot of heat and humidity! It’s really working hard in that environment. Something you could try may sound stupid but doesn’t hurt and is easy . Wait until it’s good and dark and put some very bright lights inside and close it up and see if you can detect any light leaking around door or any where else.
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Post by ckfan on Jul 13, 2018 19:35:46 GMT
Yes, that’s a lot of heat and humidity for this unit to cope with. Not that they weren’t designed to take it but that will drastically effect the run time. It seems like the temperature of the interior and the run times are more appropriate now that you made some adjustments. When you compare it to the run times that we are used to it still seems long but then again it is running in a worst case scenario environment. Humidity really adds a load to the machine. I still wouldn’t be surprised if there is wet insulation or an air gap somewhere though.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 13, 2018 21:31:41 GMT
Yes, that’s a lot of heat and humidity for this unit to cope with. Not that they weren’t designed to take it but that will drastically effect the run time. It seems like the temperature of the interior and the run times are more appropriate now that you made some adjustments. When you compare it to the run times that we are used to it still seems long but then again it is running in a worst case scenario environment. Humidity really adds a load to the machine. I still wouldn’t be surprised if there is wet insulation or an air gap somewhere though.
When I had Andrew's CK in my workshop in Alabama, the heat was about the same - maybe a little hotter. I was seeing colder temperatures in the cabinet with a calibrated (but cheap) vent thermometer. While bringing it back to Louisiana, I went through several torrential rain storms. The top 1/3 of the unit was tarped to keep water off the controls, wiring, and (I had hoped) insulation. There is, of course, a chance that the insulation did get wet somehow.
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Post by elec573 on Jul 14, 2018 3:14:23 GMT
Yes the environment is very hard on them . Have a ck26a16 in my garage temp 89 degrees dew point at 67 . Needs new door gasket Fired it up to see how it would preform. Wow what an eye opener
the condenser got hot like right now! Almost to hot to touch . After 15 mins the evaporator was sweating. So let it run for an hour motor got almost too hot to touch it had built up a lot of frost on evaporator. After just one hour run time it had built up a lot of frost on evaporator with a bad door seal . The motor was almost too hot to touch! So I shut it down . This really drove home how much the temp and humidity can be in a factor on how these machines preform . It would definitely shorten there life
span . But this machine was not running before so it did not have any previous cooling .
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 14, 2018 10:14:17 GMT
Yes the environment is very hard on them . Have a ck26a16 in my garage temp 89 degrees dew point at 67 . Needs new door gasket Fired it up to see how it would preform. Wow what an eye opener the condenser got hot like right now! Almost to hot to touch . After 15 mins the evaporator was sweating. So let it run for an hour motor got almost too hot to touch it had built up a lot of frost on evaporator. After just one hour run time it had built up a lot of frost on evaporator with a bad door seal . The motor was almost too hot to touch! So I shut it down . This really drove home how much the temp and humidity can be in a factor on how these machines preform . It would definitely shorten there life span . But this machine was not running before so it did not have any previous cooling . I did notice that with both Andrew's CK and also the "new" DR2 which I recently obtained - the ambient temperature makes a very big difference in the temperature of the compressor dome and run times. The 40'd Frigidaires that I have in the same barn do not seem to be affected as much (if at all). It may have something to do with the cabinet insulation design; with the Frigidaires using fiberglass. Note well that they aren't as old as the MT's, but the insulation seems to hold up better in moist environments. |
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Post by csulaguy on Jul 17, 2018 9:23:43 GMT
Ok you definitely have outside air getting into cabinet. Mine takes 3 to 6 months to get that much frost on evaporator. Mine is in an air condition house at around 71 degrees But I think that’s still to much frost . Yup, I was thinking the same thing. I think it took about 4-5 months before I turned my dial to off and used a heat gun to get rid of the frost on my CK-2-B16. Of course, the OP's unit is in an area with more humidity I would think, so that especially wouldn't help with an air leak. |
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