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Post by ablock on Jul 10, 2018 17:09:31 GMT
Many of you are familiar with this fridge from the videos posted by Turbokinetic, my dear and extremely(!) talented friend who was kind enough to braze a broken line and replace the leaked out SO2. I have polished the porcelain and it is 99% intact but for the panel under the door which has some rust damage from a bad gasket.
The machine runs great, cycling on for +/-4 minutes or so every 30-40 minutes and the dome gets to around 95 degrees and it makes no noise other than a extremely quiet him, which cannot be heard over a running fan. According to the videos, all pressure settings and amp readings are normal.
The room where it is located is insulated but not air conditioned, so it remains about 80 degrees depending on if the doors are open.
The evaporator is nicely iced over and according to an IR thermometer is sitting right at around 3 to 6 degrees F.
My issue is the cabinet temp according to a the mercury refrigerator thermometer is sitting right at about 40-42 degrees with the thermostat setting on "9." I know these machines will get down into the 30's and I'd love to get this between 30 and 35. Is it possible this needs to be calibrated? I read the service manual and it seems like the calibration screw is behind the thermostat control box but I, of fair mechanical skills, can't seem to figure out how to get to it. TK mentioned it could be compromised insulation from the door not closing for years and years and condensate pooling in the bottom of the unit but I see no condensate on the exterior, and running my IR over the exterior gives me a constant temp reading so if there is an air leak, it is a very small one. I would think if the fridge was fighting warm air, it would be running excessively, so that's why I think it may just be shutting off prematurely.
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Post by ckfan on Jul 10, 2018 19:34:43 GMT
That’s strange. It sounds like the unit isn’t running often enough. The evaporator temp sounds spot on though, if anything it sounds cold but it would be at that temperature. Check to make sure that the temperature probe hasn’t been moved. I believe it is supposed to be next to the second channel of refrigerant in the evaporator. If it’s in the wrong spot it will not work right.
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Post by ablock on Jul 11, 2018 4:39:23 GMT
That’s strange. It sounds like the unit isn’t running often enough. The evaporator temp sounds spot on though, if anything it sounds cold but it would be at that temperature. Check to make sure that the temperature probe hasn’t been moved. I believe it is supposed to be next to the second channel of refrigerant in the evaporator. If it’s in the wrong spot it will not work right. The temperature probe is clamped onto the front of the evaporator on the left with 2 nuts. I noticed the unit had a bit of condensate on the top and bottom of the door. My lower textolite piece has a hole in it about the diameter of a pencil, could that be part of the issue?
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Post by ckfan on Jul 11, 2018 5:18:50 GMT
I would say that it wouldn’t help matters but I’m not sure that is the main issue. I would seal it up the best you can with some sort of putty for a temporary fix and see if it improves. Also look at the seal between the cabinet and unit to see if it is doing it’s job and is sealing well.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 11, 2018 22:45:58 GMT
Many of you are familiar with this fridge from the videos posted by Turbokinetic, my dear and extremely(!) talented friend who was kind enough to braze a broken line and replace the leaked out SO2. I have polished the porcelain and it is 99% intact but for the panel under the door which has some rust damage from a bad gasket. The machine runs great, cycling on for +/-4 minutes or so every 30-40 minutes and the dome gets to around 95 degrees and it makes no noise other than a extremely quiet him, which cannot be heard over a running fan. According to the videos, all pressure settings and amp readings are normal. The room where it is located is insulated but not air conditioned, so it remains about 80 degrees depending on if the doors are open. The evaporator is nicely iced over and according to an IR thermometer is sitting right at around 3 to 6 degrees F. My issue is the cabinet temp according to a the mercury refrigerator thermometer is sitting right at about 40-42 degrees with the thermostat setting on "9." I know these machines will get down into the 30's and I'd love to get this between 30 and 35. Is it possible this needs to be calibrated? I read the service manual and it seems like the calibration screw is behind the thermostat control box but I, of fair mechanical skills, can't seem to figure out how to get to it. TK mentioned it could be compromised insulation from the door not closing for years and years and condensate pooling in the bottom of the unit but I see no condensate on the exterior, and running my IR over the exterior gives me a constant temp reading so if there is an air leak, it is a very small one. I would think if the fridge was fighting warm air, it would be running excessively, so that's why I think it may just be shutting off prematurely. Thanks for the vote of confidence! I appreciate it. Your CK did run well in my hot barn as a torture test and it did well for a month or so. I had a thermometer on the shelf directly below the evaporator and it seemed to be reading much colder than in the 40's. This would make me think that possibly there is warm air or another source of heat infiltrating the cabinet, having a greater effect at the locations further from the evaporator.
Due to the rust in the front of the cabinet near the bottom o the door; I wonder if there is some deterioration of the insulation in the cabinet? I don't think there are any severe air leaks in the cabinet, because the frost level wasn't that severe even after sustained running.
I would say that it wouldn’t help matters but I’m not sure that is the main issue. I would seal it up the best you can with some sort of putty for a temporary fix and see if it improves. Also look at the seal between the cabinet and unit to see if it is doing it’s job and is sealing well.
That top gasket is new, but the unit did take a trailer ride for 5 hours. It wouldn't hurt to look at it. However again, it's a brand new McMaster-Carr gasket. Both seals are new, at the outer edge of the cabinet; and at the inner area of the fridge compartment; with glued corners.
I don't have access to my pictures at the moment (darn work!) but in the other thread there could be pictures of the top seals, door gasket, and temperature probe location.
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Post by ablock on Jul 11, 2018 23:57:56 GMT
Ok, some closer tests. I used a external probe thermometer for ambient and a small contact thermometer to test the evaporator. About 15 minutes after I left opened the door, it was on an off cycle (0 amp draw) and the evaporator was at a few degrees above zero. The cabinet temp was 45 in the center section. I would think if there was air infiltration, I'd be seeing condensate from the 76 percent humidity.
Temperature setting is still 9. It almost seems like the temp setting doesn't matter, it seems to stay the same temperature whether on the half setting or coldest.
The cycle seems to start at around 6 amps and quickly drop to 2.6amps for the duration of the cycle (about 7 minutes). The dome and condenser never gets about warm, around 10-15 degrees above room temp.
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Post by elec573 on Jul 12, 2018 3:38:58 GMT
What kind of shelf’s are you using? These fridges need open shelves to let the cold air circulate in the cabinet. Have the same fridge it’s my avatar and has worked great for 3 years in the house. Mine has so2 run time is a little over 2 mins and off around 15 mins . Just checked mine middle shelf on left side 31 degrees on 6 setting. I would check your door gaskets. Dollar bill test .And yes plug that hole even with duct tape temporarily. Is the top seated properly (assume you removed it for transport) May all seem like simple things but they can add up . On 9 setting mine would freeze everything.
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Post by ablock on Jul 12, 2018 5:09:17 GMT
What kind of shelf’s are you using? These fridges need open shelves to let the cold air circulate in the cabinet. Have the same fridge it’s my avatar and has worked great for 3 years in the house. Mine has so2 run time is a little over 2 mins and off around 15 mins . Just checked mine middle shelf on left side 31 degrees on 6 setting. I would check your door gaskets. Dollar bill test .And yes plug that hole even with duct tape temporarily. Is the top seated properly (assume you removed it for transport) May all seem like simple things but they can add up . On 9 setting mine would freeze everything. It has the OEM slider shelves minus the lower rack as the frame is missing. I just checked my runtime with a Killawatt, it ran 1 hour and 11 minutes over a 3 hour period. I guess I was underestimating the run. All door gaskets and top gasket are brand new and I completely covered the textolite piece at the bottom with packing tape. I can't figure it out yet, but we will!
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 12, 2018 10:25:58 GMT
What kind of shelf’s are you using? These fridges need open shelves to let the cold air circulate in the cabinet. Have the same fridge it’s my avatar and has worked great for 3 years in the house. Mine has so2 run time is a little over 2 mins and off around 15 mins . Just checked mine middle shelf on left side 31 degrees on 6 setting. I would check your door gaskets. Dollar bill test .And yes plug that hole even with duct tape temporarily. Is the top seated properly (assume you removed it for transport) May all seem like simple things but they can add up . On 9 setting mine would freeze everything. It has the OEM slider shelves minus the lower rack as the frame is missing. I just checked my runtime with a Killawatt, it ran 1 hour and 11 minutes over a 3 hour period. I guess I was underestimating the run. All door gaskets and top gasket are brand new and I completely covered the textolite piece at the bottom with packing tape. I can't figure it out yet, but we will!
It does seem odd that the temperature knob isn't making a difference in the temperature. When rewiring the unit, I tried to leave enough cable for the control to be lifted out the top of the unit before disconnecting the wiring. That should make it a little easier to service it! Just be careful with the sensing tube since it goes through rubber grommets at two points.
In reading here; it seems that folks have been able to increase run times by placing a plastic sheet (can't remember the type) between the sensing tube and the evaporator.
Again I'm on a very demanding jobsite this week and can't respond but once or twice a day.
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Post by elec573 on Jul 12, 2018 15:58:30 GMT
That seems like a long run time to me (1hour and 11 mins) out of 3 . I know you’res has a different refrigerant but still seems very long . Mine might run around 1/2 hour out of 3. Something not right if you’re temp control is not changing it’s run times . Could the knobs be slipping when you turn them ? I believe you said it was making good contact with evaporator. You could try and put some hot water in evaporator and see how it reacts. It should kick on almost immediately and run for a while.
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Post by ablock on Jul 12, 2018 17:00:10 GMT
I'll try that when I get home. I can feel the dial moving and it will engage if you turn it past a certain point and immediately run. Here is where I'm at right now. I had not opened it since yesterday. The probe thermometer reads at 39 degrees, and the evaporator contact thermometer reads at 18-19 degrees. 5 hours 47 minutes of runtime over 13 hour 50 minute duration. Temp setting 5. Sorry for the terrible video, I was trying to capture the run sound plus all the metrics. This was before I opened it to check evaporator temp. www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkgaGK_BOUY
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Post by ckfan on Jul 12, 2018 22:48:14 GMT
THe more info you give on this the more that I think the sensing tube wasn’t put back in the proper position. If you look in the manual I think it shows how to install it.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 12, 2018 23:02:28 GMT
THe more info you give on this the more that I think the sensing tube wasn’t put back in the proper position. If you look in the manual I think it shows how to install it. Did you have a chance to look at the previous thread? I believe I put a picture there of the tube. Not able to get to it at the moment myself.
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Post by Travis on Jul 13, 2018 0:45:33 GMT
Loud child there.
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Post by ckfan on Jul 13, 2018 2:59:11 GMT
It does seem pretty loud but as I’ve witnessed before, videos tend to make quiet things seem louder than they actually are. At any rate, looking back at the pictures in the previous thread reveals something interesting. It seems like the original clamp that holds the bellows tube is gone and in its place looks something home made. The original clamp would have had a screw holding a curved piece of metal to the second row of refrigerant tubing in the evaporator. Look and see if you see a screw hole that is on a piece of metal which stands off from the evaporator side. It is really strange though that with that long of a run time it doesn’t get colder in the evaporator or the cabinet. Hmm...
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