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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 19, 2022 11:20:32 GMT
I am sure that David will speak up here, but r600 may work, possibly with a float delete, cap tube or other expansion device. R600 is butane, so venting it should be done with caution.
Thank you :-) Since my last post I believe I may have found a supplier in the UK hopefully for R152A , although it certainly seems not very common at all over here. Sorry for the slow replies. Been busy. It seems that Europe in general has decided that hydrocarbons are the aerosol propellant of choice, and have shunned HFC gases in general. Possibly this is a trade issue with the States but I am not sure. I think the WD-40 company sells an R152A duster in your area but I am not 100$ sure. I would avoid R600A because it is "orders of magnitude" more flammable than R152A. With the amount of refrigerant in the Monitor Top system; I would have a concern with that amount of hydrocarbon in the system. For systems designed for R600A the designed charge amount is just a few grams, so as to mitigate the risk. The original float valve will work with R152A. That is; if the float is good. If it's not good, a capillary tube can be installed to replace the float system.
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Post by osx86apple on Jun 22, 2022 8:00:06 GMT
Thank you :-) Since my last post I believe I may have found a supplier in the UK hopefully for R152A , although it certainly seems not very common at all over here. Sorry for the slow replies. Been busy. It seems that Europe in general has decided that hydrocarbons are the aerosol propellant of choice, and have shunned HFC gases in general. Possibly this is a trade issue with the States but I am not sure. I think the WD-40 company sells an R152A duster in your area but I am not 100$ sure. I would avoid R600A because it is "orders of magnitude" more flammable than R152A. With the amount of refrigerant in the Monitor Top system; I would have a concern with that amount of hydrocarbon in the system. For systems designed for R600A the designed charge amount is just a few grams, so as to mitigate the risk. The original float valve will work with R152A. That is; if the float is good. If it's not good, a capillary tube can be installed to replace the float system. Thanks David. So it continues…. I’ve managed to locate and order R152a which is great, although my next challenge is finding a supplier that will allow me to purchase nitrogen, it also seems this is highly controlled over here, and as such I’ve not been successful so far. Question is, are there any other workarounds I could explore, or is nitrogen really the only way to go?
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marko
7 Cubic Foot
Posts: 144
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Post by marko on Jun 22, 2022 9:08:46 GMT
I do not understand how N2 could be a controlled substance; the atmosphere is 78% nitrogen! I suppose that any dry, inert gas such as argon or CO2, could be used to pressure test and/or sweep the system. I have, on occasion, used refrigerant gas (properly recovered, of course)
What gasses are available to you? Do not use oxygen! Also, any liquid phase substance introduced will effectively invalidate pressure test results.
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Post by osx86apple on Jun 22, 2022 11:08:38 GMT
I do not understand how N2 could be a controlled substance; the atmosphere is 78% nitrogen! I suppose that any dry, inert gas such as argon or CO2, could be used to pressure test and/or sweep the system. I have, on occasion, used refrigerant gas (properly recovered, of course)
What gasses are available to you? Do not use oxygen! Also, any liquid phase substance introduced will effectively invalidate pressure test results.
Thank you ! :-) I know, we seem to think in this country that everyone is up to no good! So I believe I can get Argon or CO2 which is normally suitable for welding applications - they aren’t in the biggest of bottles but I guess they should do the job?
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 22, 2022 12:19:39 GMT
I do not understand how N2 could be a controlled substance; the atmosphere is 78% nitrogen! I suppose that any dry, inert gas such as argon or CO2, could be used to pressure test and/or sweep the system. I have, on occasion, used refrigerant gas (properly recovered, of course)
What gasses are available to you? Do not use oxygen! Also, any liquid phase substance introduced will effectively invalidate pressure test results.
Thank you ! :-) I know, we seem to think in this country that everyone is up to no good! So I believe I can get Argon or CO2 which is normally suitable for welding applications - they aren’t in the biggest of bottles but I guess they should do the job? This is so frustrating. CO2 is not inert and forms acids in contact with water. Argon can be used but it is expensive. As said, never use oxygen. There is no reason for nitrogen to be considered a controlled substance. If this is indeed the case; I would expect that politicians / organized labor are somehow involved. I looked briefly at the UK websites for Linde and Air Products. It seems that they don't say anything about restrictions on sales of nitrogen. Are you sure they understood you correctly and didn't assume you were looking for nitrous oxide; which is an intoxicant? Here where I live, anyone can buy compressed nitrogen; however you will have to buy or rent a cylinder for it. The cylinder costs a lot more than the nitrogen; however it can be refilled over and over for a few dollars. Sincerely, David
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Post by osx86apple on Jun 22, 2022 13:36:10 GMT
Thank you ! :-) I know, we seem to think in this country that everyone is up to no good! So I believe I can get Argon or CO2 which is normally suitable for welding applications - they aren’t in the biggest of bottles but I guess they should do the job? This is so frustrating. CO2 is not inert and forms acids in contact with water. Argon can be used but it is expensive. As said, never use oxygen. There is no reason for nitrogen to be considered a controlled substance. If this is indeed the case; I would expect that politicians / organized labor are somehow involved. I looked briefly at the UK websites for Linde and Air Products. It seems that they don't say anything about restrictions on sales of nitrogen. Are you sure they understood you correctly and didn't assume you were looking for nitrous oxide; which is an intoxicant? Here where I live, anyone can buy compressed nitrogen; however you will have to buy or rent a cylinder for it. The cylinder costs a lot more than the nitrogen; however it can be refilled over and over for a few dollars. Sincerely, David Thanks David. I know it’s utterly ridiculous. Both Boc (Linde) and Air products asked me lots of inquisitive questions, and after explaining its purely to purge refrigeration lines they simply said they couldn’t supply it to me. I guess being a private resident, and not a business, they didn’t seem confident as to why I needed it. Definitely frustrating, but I shan’t be defeated. I believe I can get nitrogen in smaller bottles from alternative suppliers, or argon, which is actually very similarly priced. Any recommendations on an amount I should get away with ? , as you’ve said it might take several goes before the so2 is completely gone. Thanks so much again everyone for your help, it’s been an absolute life saver this forum and I’ve really learnt so much already! :-)
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Post by karlbrighton on Jun 29, 2022 16:49:44 GMT
Hi Matthew. Great that you found the forum! I haven't looked here the last month as have been away.. Great that the guys have been so helpful, with you getting this machine running. I had seen this on ebay and given the seller some more information as it was listed as a 50s fridge. It's a great model. The cabinet you have is a FT50, BTH made at their Rugby plant. I've looked at the bth catalogue I have which doesn't list a flat top model, so yours is a puzzle. The combined compressor and condenser appears to be the same as an earlier monitor top from 1932, as the monitor tops later were more of the CA and CK GE. I have a bth silent servent operating handbook, very basic info there, but shows your model. The interesting thing is it shows a dual cold control. These usually have the overload combined here. Which would be why there is no overload in the relay. Hopefully when you get the RO82 fitted this will help. I'd be patient with the SO2 and float, purge again and let it run again, mine did used to stick at first. It had sat for years unused too.. But after a few goes and running a while doesn't play up at all. Maybe concentrate on the cold control. Karl
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Post by 508gm1 on Jun 29, 2022 21:06:57 GMT
I understand your frustration with obtaining compressed gasses including nitrogen. I got the same response here in Canada from BOC & Linde. The company I work for goes through alot of extra dry nitrogen. I tried to put my order on their account but pay for it myself. No go. I ended up going through one of our local hardware store chains to get it. Deposit on the bottle was high, but at least I was able to get it. Phone some local hardware stores or try an HVAC supplier. They should stock small b-tank sized bottles for the air conditioning / refrigeration guys.
I don't think there are any regulations, aside from transportation, restricting who can buy nitrogen. The biggest hold up with BOC & Linde seemed to be dealing with person whom does not have an account with them.
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Post by osx86apple on Jul 7, 2022 18:23:28 GMT
Just an update for everyone that’s interested :-)
I decided to take the plunge and evacuate the So2.
Had good success evacuating the so2, by allowing it to evacuate in a solution of washing soda and a very long air hose adapted with small holes in a loop to create a sort of sprinkler effect in the solution. Luckily didn’t smell a thing during this process! The fridge was also placed on its side and elevated from the bottom.
Once this was completed it was then placed under vacuum overnight followed by 4 or so nitrogen purges and a final vacuum, this is unfortunately where I did get a nice whiff of so2, urgh! Once this was complete It was then recharged with 2 x 400ml (10oz) cans of Chemtronics R152A.
It was restarted and immediately started cooling; which so far it’s never done before without lots of intervention! I’ve spent a couple of days purging off the NCG’s built up in the float, and so far it’s been running now for 24 hours successfully. So time will tell how it does, but so far go good!
Huge thanks to everyone for their help, and especially David for all the advice and tips!
Next stop, cabinet refinish :-)
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Post by ckfan on Jul 9, 2022 17:40:56 GMT
That’s great. I’m glad this one is being saved. Truly unique.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 10, 2022 19:26:44 GMT
Just an update for everyone that’s interested :-) I decided to take the plunge and evacuate the So2. Had good success evacuating the so2, by allowing it to evacuate in a solution of washing soda and a very long air hose adapted with small holes in a loop to create a sort of sprinkler effect in the solution. Luckily didn’t smell a thing during this process! The fridge was also placed on its side and elevated from the bottom. Once this was completed it was then placed under vacuum overnight followed by 4 or so nitrogen purges and a final vacuum, this is unfortunately where I did get a nice whiff of so2, urgh! Once this was complete It was then recharged with 2 x 400ml (10oz) cans of Chemtronics R152A. It was restarted and immediately started cooling; which so far it’s never done before without lots of intervention! I’ve spent a couple of days purging off the NCG’s built up in the float, and so far it’s been running now for 24 hours successfully. So time will tell how it does, but so far go good! Huge thanks to everyone for their help, and especially David for all the advice and tips! Next stop, cabinet refinish :-) So glad to hear it's still working well! Happy to have assisted in your repairs, too. That’s great. I’m glad this one is being saved. Truly unique. It is hella unique! With the DR-looking compressor under the cabinet. Would love to know if that is actually an oscillating cylinder compressor like a DR, or if it is a scotch yoke machine, with a DR-like open coil condenser around it. Sincerely, David
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Post by karlbrighton on Jul 13, 2022 17:22:59 GMT
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Post by karlbrighton on Jul 13, 2022 17:28:59 GMT
Really great news the bth is working and cooling.. Have attached an image of the bth compressor. Be interesting how they compare..
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 14, 2022 2:20:43 GMT
Really great news the bth is working and cooling.. Have attached an image of the bth compressor. Be interesting how they compare.. That is very interesting. Looks a little like a DR machine; however the lines configuration is clearly a low-side housing design.
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Post by osx86apple on Jul 20, 2022 19:54:46 GMT
Hey everyone
It’s been running flawlessly for two weeks now, and keeping a good temp.
I did have to stop and defrost it today, as currently I’m preparing it for painting (will post some photos once finished!)
However upon starting again it does start cooling straight away which is great, but seems to get itself stuck intermittently until the refrigerant has had good time to circulate then it sorts itself out and all is well again. Wondering if I might have some ncgs still in there ?
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