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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 15, 2022 16:03:59 GMT
I’ll need to get myself a new door seal, any recommendations on a good supplier? The fridge looks very similar in build to a GE flat top design, wonder if BTH copied GE’s design. Thermostat isn’t original unfortunately, looks like it was replaced a long time ago with a simple on/off set up , relay is original and has been cleaned. I’m wondering if the thermostat might be not quite right, when it’s cooled and shut off it has started not coming on (you can hear the click within the thermostat when turning it up) but it doesn’t start the compressor. Turning the thermostat to off and on usually gets it to start again as normal. Ah, didn't realize the thermostat wasn't original. When it comes to the GE models, some of them have the overload breaker in the start-relay, and others have it in the thermostat. Can you send a picture of the start-relay? When the thermostat clicks; does the compressor "hum but not start" or does it "do nothing at all" when energized?
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Post by osx86apple on Jun 15, 2022 16:14:51 GMT
So here is a photo when taken out before it was re-wired. I believe looks similar to the GE design? I stripped it apart and cleaned the starter contact, which was typically carbonated. So when the thermostat is turned up it clicks, but no noise from the relay or compressor at all. Attachments:
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 15, 2022 17:19:17 GMT
So here is a photo when taken out before it was re-wired. I believe looks similar to the GE design? I stripped it apart and cleaned the starter contact, which was typically carbonated. So when the thermostat is turned up it clicks, but no noise from the relay or compressor at all. Oh wow; that is the earlier style GE relay. That one has no internal overload circuit breaker. Be absolutely sure that the thermostat has a breaker inside it, or in addition to it. If the system has no overload at some point, the compressor will be ruined. If it ended up energized without starting, and no overload was present to trip and stop the current; that could explain the non-condensable gas.
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Post by osx86apple on Jun 15, 2022 17:42:11 GMT
Thanks David, I thought there was possibly no overload protector - although I currently have it hooked up to a plug in overload protector, and it’s currently pulling around 1.1amps which I believe is it’s spec (according to the plate anyway!) , it’s been running on an off for about 8 hours now. Any recommendations for one that’s a suitable in line overload protector ? I definitely don’t want a situation where the compressor is ruined, would be such a shame considering how old it is Im pretty good with technical repairs but fridges are a whole new ball game for me, so I really appreciate your help. Also, getting someone over the in the UK that would specialise in one of these fridges is probably zero, so I think I’m on my own with this one
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 15, 2022 17:44:59 GMT
Thanks David, I thought there was possibly no overload protector - although I currently have it hooked up to a plug in overload protector, and it’s currently pulling around 1.1amps which I believe is it’s spec (according to the plate anyway!) , it’s been running on an off for about 8 hours now. Any recommendations for one that’s a suitable in line overload protector ? I definitely don’t want a situation where the compressor is ruined, would be such a shame considering how old it is Im pretty good with technical repairs but fridges are a whole new ball game for me, so I really appreciate your help. Also, getting someone over the in the UK that would specialise in one of these fridges is probably zero, so I think I’m on my own with this one Yep! For an external overload breaker you can use a Supco RO82. You won't use the "start" function on the RO82; only the overload. To hook it up this way, you'll need to use the RO82 inline with the power supply to the fridge. Remove the "C" wire from the RO82 altogether. Connect your Live wire to the black "power" input wire. Then, connect the R and S output wires together and use that to power the fridge.
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Post by osx86apple on Jun 15, 2022 21:52:28 GMT
Thanks David, I thought there was possibly no overload protector - although I currently have it hooked up to a plug in overload protector, and it’s currently pulling around 1.1amps which I believe is it’s spec (according to the plate anyway!) , it’s been running on an off for about 8 hours now. Any recommendations for one that’s a suitable in line overload protector ? I definitely don’t want a situation where the compressor is ruined, would be such a shame considering how old it is Im pretty good with technical repairs but fridges are a whole new ball game for me, so I really appreciate your help. Also, getting someone over the in the UK that would specialise in one of these fridges is probably zero, so I think I’m on my own with this one Yep! For an external overload breaker you can use a Supco RO82. You won't use the "start" function on the RO82; only the overload. To hook it up this way, you'll need to use the RO82 inline with the power supply to the fridge. Remove the "C" wire from the RO82 altogether. Connect your Live wire to the black "power" input wire. Then, connect the R and S output wires together and use that to power the fridge. Just ordered one, and I’ll get that installed :-) So having left it longer the thermostat definitely doesn’t want to go again unless you turn it way back to off and then on again, so not an issue I can see with the relay or compressor, but the thermostat Next dilemma is whether these are relatively easy to repair/service, or if a generic replacement stat can be used ?
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Post by osx86apple on Jun 16, 2022 12:25:41 GMT
Yep! For an external overload breaker you can use a Supco RO82. You won't use the "start" function on the RO82; only the overload. To hook it up this way, you'll need to use the RO82 inline with the power supply to the fridge. Remove the "C" wire from the RO82 altogether. Connect your Live wire to the black "power" input wire. Then, connect the R and S output wires together and use that to power the fridge. Just ordered one, and I’ll get that installed :-) So having left it longer the thermostat definitely doesn’t want to go again unless you turn it way back to off and then on again, so not an issue I can see with the relay or compressor, but the thermostat Next dilemma is whether these are relatively easy to repair/service, or if a generic replacement stat can be used ? Also, sorry for all the questions. If I needed to re-gas, I already have the manifold, hoses and vacuum pump (unused) If I evacuated the So2 in an alkaline solution (to be safe) - would it be best to purge with nitrogen first, the maybe do a nitrogen fill and check for leaks before adding the r-152a ? As there is no specs on the plate I have no idea how much to charge it with, so would need to keep an eye on the frost level ? And sorry if this seems a silly question; but how can I safety evacuate the refrigerant and purge without affecting the mineral oil within the compressor, as I’m unsure how the best method would be with only a high side service port. Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your help, overall I’m enjoying working on this fridge, and although a learning curve I’m really appreciating the knowledge shared and the helpful tips from this forum, I’ve learnt a lot ! :-)
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 16, 2022 13:03:23 GMT
Just ordered one, and I’ll get that installed :-) So having left it longer the thermostat definitely doesn’t want to go again unless you turn it way back to off and then on again, so not an issue I can see with the relay or compressor, but the thermostat Next dilemma is whether these are relatively easy to repair/service, or if a generic replacement stat can be used ? Also, sorry for all the questions. If I needed to re-gas, I already have the manifold, hoses and vacuum pump (unused) If I evacuated the So2 in an alkaline solution (to be safe) - would it be best to purge with nitrogen first, the maybe do a nitrogen fill and check for leaks before adding the r-152a ? As there is no specs on the plate I have no idea how much to charge it with, so would need to keep an eye on the frost level ? And sorry if this seems a silly question; but how can I safety evacuate the refrigerant and purge without affecting the mineral oil within the compressor, as I’m unsure how the best method would be with only a high side service port. Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your help, overall I’m enjoying working on this fridge, and although a learning curve I’m really appreciating the knowledge shared and the helpful tips from this forum, I’ve learnt a lot ! :-) Without seeing the thermostat its self (your video shows the knob only) it's hard to tell what's up with it. There is a chance it would be easier to replace the thermostat; unless it's a larger, older design where the parts are accessible. There are replacement Ranco thermostats which will do the job of the original, but as said you have to be sure that there is an overload breaker in the system. Normally, removal of SO2 needs to be done in several steps. The oil absorbs SO2, and won't release it until it has been exposed to heat and vacuum. Then you use nitrogen to dilute and remove the residual SO2. First, allow the pressure in the system to discharge as much SO2 as possible. The evaporator and compressor will likely get cold as the SO2 tries to boil off. You will need to apply heat to the bottom of the compressor sump to heat the oil. It needs to be "almost too hot to touch" in order to get the majority of the oil out of the SO2. Once you let out all the pressure which will escape naturally; the float valve will need to be open to get all the SO2 out and pull a good vacuum. This will necessitate the unit to be laid on its side and blocked up so that the float is opened by gravity. That will allow the factory service port to be used for evacuation. Connect a vacuum pump to the system and allow it to draw out the residual SO2. While the vacuum pump is operating, continue heating the compressor sump, and also use a heat gun to heat up the evaporator and float chamber; where oil is always trapped. During the evacuation, be sure that the vacuum pump isn't pulling out the system oil. That can happen if the compressor is in the wrong position. I know on the CK machines, if the float chamber service port is facing up, it won't draw out the oil. Once you have achieved a good vacuum, put nitrogen in the system to bring it up to atmospheric pressure. Let it sit for about 30 minutes. Remove it with vacuum pump, and repeat the purge and evacuate cycles. After a certain number of purges, the nitrogen will stop smelling like SO2 when it comes out. The key points are that heat has to be applied; and the float has to be opened by turning the machine on its side, with the bottom elevated; and it takes several purges with nitrogen.
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Post by osx86apple on Jun 16, 2022 20:03:07 GMT
Just ordered one, and I’ll get that installed :-) So having left it longer the thermostat definitely doesn’t want to go again unless you turn it way back to off and then on again, so not an issue I can see with the relay or compressor, but the thermostat Next dilemma is whether these are relatively easy to repair/service, or if a generic replacement stat can be used ? Also, sorry for all the questions. If I needed to re-gas, I already have the manifold, hoses and vacuum pump (unused) If I evacuated the So2 in an alkaline solution (to be safe) - would it be best to purge with nitrogen first, the maybe do a nitrogen fill and check for leaks before adding the r-152a ? As there is no specs on the plate I have no idea how much to charge it with, so would need to keep an eye on the frost level ? And sorry if this seems a silly question; but how can I safety evacuate the refrigerant and purge without affecting the mineral oil within the compressor, as I’m unsure how the best method would be with only a high side service port. Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your help, overall I’m enjoying working on this fridge, and although a learning curve I’m really appreciating the knowledge shared and the helpful tips from this forum, I’ve learnt a lot ! :-) Without seeing the thermostat its self (your video shows the knob only) it's hard to tell what's up with it. There is a chance it would be easier to replace the thermostat; unless it's a larger, older design where the parts are accessible. There are replacement Ranco thermostats which will do the job of the original, but as said you have to be sure that there is an overload breaker in the system. Normally, removal of SO2 needs to be done in several steps. The oil absorbs SO2, and won't release it until it has been exposed to heat and vacuum. Then you use nitrogen to dilute and remove the residual SO2. First, allow the pressure in the system to discharge as much SO2 as possible. The evaporator and compressor will likely get cold as the SO2 tries to boil off. You will need to apply heat to the bottom of the compressor sump to heat the oil. It needs to be "almost too hot to touch" in order to get the majority of the oil out of the SO2. Once you let out all the pressure which will escape naturally; the float valve will need to be open to get all the SO2 out and pull a good vacuum. This will necessitate the unit to be laid on its side and blocked up so that the float is opened by gravity. That will allow the factory service port to be used for evacuation. Connect a vacuum pump to the system and allow it to draw out the residual SO2. While the vacuum pump is operating, continue heating the compressor sump, and also use a heat gun to heat up the evaporator and float chamber; where oil is always trapped. During the evacuation, be sure that the vacuum pump isn't pulling out the system oil. That can happen if the compressor is in the wrong position. I know on the CK machines, if the float chamber service port is facing up, it won't draw out the oil. Once you have achieved a good vacuum, put nitrogen in the system to bring it up to atmospheric pressure. Let it sit for about 30 minutes. Remove it with vacuum pump, and repeat the purge and evacuate cycles. After a certain number of purges, the nitrogen will stop smelling like SO2 when it comes out. The key points are that heat has to be applied; and the float has to be opened by turning the machine on its side, with the bottom elevated; and it takes several purges with nitrogen. Thank you David for the info, it’s highly appreciated! So, having had the fridge off overnight and all day today I started it up, and unfortunately it wouldn’t cool again - however a very slight open of the service port and it’s going again just fine, the boiling is different from what I’d normally expect / hear - and if not for safety purposes I’m considering doing an evacuation of the so2 and doing a leak test etc before recharging it with the R152A - at least something that’s a bit safer if there is a slight leak. I’ve uploaded a video of it cooling: youtu.be/yAawFnEyEtU
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 17, 2022 10:26:51 GMT
Without seeing the thermostat its self (your video shows the knob only) it's hard to tell what's up with it. There is a chance it would be easier to replace the thermostat; unless it's a larger, older design where the parts are accessible. There are replacement Ranco thermostats which will do the job of the original, but as said you have to be sure that there is an overload breaker in the system. Normally, removal of SO2 needs to be done in several steps. The oil absorbs SO2, and won't release it until it has been exposed to heat and vacuum. Then you use nitrogen to dilute and remove the residual SO2. First, allow the pressure in the system to discharge as much SO2 as possible. The evaporator and compressor will likely get cold as the SO2 tries to boil off. You will need to apply heat to the bottom of the compressor sump to heat the oil. It needs to be "almost too hot to touch" in order to get the majority of the oil out of the SO2. Once you let out all the pressure which will escape naturally; the float valve will need to be open to get all the SO2 out and pull a good vacuum. This will necessitate the unit to be laid on its side and blocked up so that the float is opened by gravity. That will allow the factory service port to be used for evacuation. Connect a vacuum pump to the system and allow it to draw out the residual SO2. While the vacuum pump is operating, continue heating the compressor sump, and also use a heat gun to heat up the evaporator and float chamber; where oil is always trapped. During the evacuation, be sure that the vacuum pump isn't pulling out the system oil. That can happen if the compressor is in the wrong position. I know on the CK machines, if the float chamber service port is facing up, it won't draw out the oil. Once you have achieved a good vacuum, put nitrogen in the system to bring it up to atmospheric pressure. Let it sit for about 30 minutes. Remove it with vacuum pump, and repeat the purge and evacuate cycles. After a certain number of purges, the nitrogen will stop smelling like SO2 when it comes out. The key points are that heat has to be applied; and the float has to be opened by turning the machine on its side, with the bottom elevated; and it takes several purges with nitrogen. Thank you David for the info, it’s highly appreciated! So, having had the fridge off overnight and all day today I started it up, and unfortunately it wouldn’t cool again - however a very slight open of the service port and it’s going again just fine, the boiling is different from what I’d normally expect / hear - and if not for safety purposes I’m considering doing an evacuation of the so2 and doing a leak test etc before recharging it with the R152A - at least something that’s a bit safer if there is a slight leak. I’ve uploaded a video of it cooling: youtu.be/yAawFnEyEtUSounds like it still had some air trapped in the system. I've got a feeling that the lack of an overload breaker may have overheated it badly at some time in the past, leading to some contamination. You may find that it stops misbehaving after this last purge. Sometimes, the units like this (with the float at the top of the cabinet and compressor below) can take a little while to start cooling. Next time, give it about 15 to 30 minutes and see if it starts cooling. I don't have computer audio available at the moment so hopefully someone else can comment on the sound. Sincerely, David
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Post by osx86apple on Jun 17, 2022 12:26:51 GMT
Thanks David , will have a look later and see how it goes.
It’s the first time I’ve worked with a float chamber type evaporator set up and I guess it makes things sound a bit different, it seems they tend to rush the refrigerant through in bursts?, rather than the capillary set up which tends to feed through consistently.
Many thanks, Mathew
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 17, 2022 13:24:08 GMT
Thanks David , will have a look later and see how it goes. It’s the first time I’ve worked with a float chamber type evaporator set up and I guess it makes things sound a bit different, it seems they tend to rush the refrigerant through in bursts?, rather than the capillary set up which tends to feed through consistently. Many thanks, Mathew Yep, it does seem to be inconsistent at first. Once it's down to temp, it should be smoother.
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Post by osx86apple on Jun 18, 2022 19:37:20 GMT
Thanks David
Well it’s misbehaved again today, and wouldn’t go without a slight purge, wonder if there is more air trapped than I thought
I am considering doing an evacuation and refill, however it seems that R152a is hard to get here in the uk? All the air dusters available seem to be the HFC free type which is frustrating - has anyone had much success with other types ?
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marko
7 Cubic Foot
Posts: 144
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Post by marko on Jun 18, 2022 19:49:28 GMT
I am sure that David will speak up here, but r600 may work, possibly with a float delete, cap tube or other expansion device. R600 is butane, so venting it should be done with caution.
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Post by osx86apple on Jun 18, 2022 22:13:39 GMT
I am sure that David will speak up here, but r600 may work, possibly with a float delete, cap tube or other expansion device. R600 is butane, so venting it should be done with caution.
Thank you :-) Since my last post I believe I may have found a supplier in the UK hopefully for R152A , although it certainly seems not very common at all over here.
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