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Post by GrumpyGenXer on Mar 9, 2021 5:57:18 GMT
I purchased a CA online and in 2 weeks I'm driving 3400 miles round trip to pick it up - South East Texas to Vermont and back. The seller said it was working but the cord was damaged when they moved it and they haven't plugged it in since. No big deal, I thought, but then I was looking at the pictures of the damaged cord and noticed what appears to be liquid on top of the cabinet. Is it possible it is the refrigerant leaking out? She assured me it isn't leaking and said she looked at the top where the liquid was in the picture and there is nothing there. That had me even more concerned that it may have been refrigerant and it boiled off. I'm hoping I'm wrong. Is it possible this is a leak and if so can these old things be repaired with newer refrigerants? Pics attached.  Attachments:
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Post by GrumpyGenXer on Mar 9, 2021 6:04:43 GMT
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Post by turbokinetic on Mar 9, 2021 13:35:31 GMT
Hi there, thanks for the dedication for making such a long trip for this fridge! That does look like some liquid on the cabinet, however it does not look like methyl formate (which is very watery and would spread out) and it doesn't look like oil which would be more amber in color. It looks like something sticky was spilled and dried there, and some chunks of the old cord crumbled and got stuck in that. Sellers are capable of telling you any imaginable untruth you can conceive. I'm not a pessimist or one who distrusts people by nature; in fact quite the opposite and I have been burned numerous times. People will tell you stories when it comes to making a sale. I would bet that was something which got spilled on the cabinet, and dried up there. That area is at the back where it was not easy to see until the fridge was moved. They probably cleaned it up and just don't want to discuss it. I notice that the lead seal is still in place at the start-relay cover. That means hopefully nobody has tampered with that part over the years. It also means that surely the relay has never had new contacts put in it so it will need to have that lead seal removed and the relay inspected. I'm sure you've seen the threads here about noncondensable gas purging. This is a peculiarity of the CA machines. It needs to be done periodically and if not taken care of, will ruin the machine eventually. Yours looks like an unrestored original, as well so please be sure to give it the attention it will need. When you replace the cord, the connector on the relay is a locking type. You have to rotate the connector body pretty forcefully; then push up and finally pull down and remove it while keeping it rotated. There is an arrow on the connector showing which way to turn it for removal. The cable is attached with screw terminals on the back of the connnector. It's very easy to change the cord. |
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Post by GrumpyGenXer on Mar 9, 2021 16:54:07 GMT
Hi there, thanks for the dedication for making such a long trip for this fridge! That does look like some liquid on the cabinet, however it does not look like methyl formate (which is very watery and would spread out) and it doesn't look like oil which would be more amber in color. It looks like something sticky was spilled and dried there, and some chunks of the old cord crumbled and got stuck in that. Sellers are capable of telling you any imaginable untruth you can conceive. I'm not a pessimist or one who distrusts people by nature; in fact quite the opposite and I have been burned numerous times. People will tell you stories when it comes to making a sale. I would bet that was something which got spilled on the cabinet, and dried up there. That area is at the back where it was not easy to see until the fridge was moved. They probably cleaned it up and just don't want to discuss it. I notice that the lead seal is still in place at the start-relay cover. That means hopefully nobody has tampered with that part over the years. It also means that surely the relay has never had new contacts put in it so it will need to have that lead seal removed and the relay inspected. I'm sure you've seen the threads here about noncondensable gas purging. This is a peculiarity of the CA machines. It needs to be done periodically and if not taken care of, will ruin the machine eventually. Yours looks like an unrestored original, as well so please be sure to give it the attention it will need. When you replace the cord, the connector on the relay is a locking type. You have to rotate the connector body pretty forcefully; then push up and finally pull down and remove it while keeping it rotated. There is an arrow on the connector showing which way to turn it for removal. The cable is attached with screw terminals on the back of the connnector. It's very easy to change the cord. That makes me feel a lot better! I'm just really nervous driving so far to pick up something that might have to be repurposed as a storage cabinet. We actually plan on using this in the kitchen as our primary refrigerator. I have seen the post about purging the noncondensable gas and watched a video. Looks pretty straightforward as long as I can find the right tool for the plugs. The tip on removing the plug is definitely helpful. I had no idea there would be a trick to removing it. Thank you for replying! |
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Post by turbokinetic on Mar 10, 2021 3:58:18 GMT
Hi there, thanks for the dedication for making such a long trip for this fridge! That does look like some liquid on the cabinet, however it does not look like methyl formate (which is very watery and would spread out) and it doesn't look like oil which would be more amber in color. It looks like something sticky was spilled and dried there, and some chunks of the old cord crumbled and got stuck in that. Sellers are capable of telling you any imaginable untruth you can conceive. I'm not a pessimist or one who distrusts people by nature; in fact quite the opposite and I have been burned numerous times. People will tell you stories when it comes to making a sale. I would bet that was something which got spilled on the cabinet, and dried up there. That area is at the back where it was not easy to see until the fridge was moved. They probably cleaned it up and just don't want to discuss it. I notice that the lead seal is still in place at the start-relay cover. That means hopefully nobody has tampered with that part over the years. It also means that surely the relay has never had new contacts put in it so it will need to have that lead seal removed and the relay inspected. I'm sure you've seen the threads here about noncondensable gas purging. This is a peculiarity of the CA machines. It needs to be done periodically and if not taken care of, will ruin the machine eventually. Yours looks like an unrestored original, as well so please be sure to give it the attention it will need. When you replace the cord, the connector on the relay is a locking type. You have to rotate the connector body pretty forcefully; then push up and finally pull down and remove it while keeping it rotated. There is an arrow on the connector showing which way to turn it for removal. The cable is attached with screw terminals on the back of the connnector. It's very easy to change the cord. That makes me feel a lot better! I'm just really nervous driving so far to pick up something that might have to be repurposed as a storage cabinet. We actually plan on using this in the kitchen as our primary refrigerator. I have seen the post about purging the noncondensable gas and watched a video. Looks pretty straightforward as long as I can find the right tool for the plugs. The tip on removing the plug is definitely helpful. I had no idea there would be a trick to removing it. Thank you for replying! You're welcome on the reply. As you are learning, there are a lot of nuances to these! |
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Post by cablehack on Mar 10, 2021 19:29:54 GMT
Methyl formate is a volatile solvent and evaporates quickly. It won’t be the substance on the cabinet top. It’s not the right colour for the lubricating oil either. Besides, the CA refrigeration circuit is in a vacuum in its dormant state, so nothing will come out unless the compressor is powered up, and there was actually a leak. The vulnerable point with CA’s is the high side tube between the float valve and evaporator, as this tube gets pinched if the cabinet top is not removed and replaced on the cabinet with care. I doubt you have anything to worry about, but even if there’s a leak it can be fixed and the refrigerant replaced. There are two ‘modern’ replacements R11 and R123 that can be used if methyl formate is too difficult to get.
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Post by ckfan on Mar 10, 2021 23:35:15 GMT
I know of someone else who has used dichloromethane and is testing it now too. So far it is working I think. So there are always options available. Yours probably doesn’t have a leak though. Just be sure to secure the top if you move it all in one piece (only gravity holds it on) and be sure to be careful with the lines if you do remove and replace it. The top is very heavy, around 150 pounds. So you would need a hoist and a crate or several strong and tall friends.
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Post by ChrisJ on Mar 10, 2021 23:41:20 GMT
I know of someone else who has used dichloromethane and is testing it now too. So far it is working I think. So there are always options available. Yours probably doesn’t have a leak though. Just be sure to secure the top if you move it all in one piece (only gravity holds it on) and be sure to be careful with the lines if you do remove and replace it. The top is very heavy, around 150 pounds. So you would need a hoist and a crate or several strong and tall friends.  |
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Post by GrumpyGenXer on Mar 12, 2021 4:08:05 GMT
... There are two ‘modern’ replacements R11 and R123 that can be used if methyl formate is too difficult to get. Good to know! I was afraid if it was leaking (or if it leaks in the future) I’d have to scrap it. Thank you for the information! |
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Post by GrumpyGenXer on Jul 22, 2021 5:32:44 GMT
Sorry for the delay updating this post, I've been very busy these past few weeks. After posting this thread I noticed one of the commenters, turbokinetic, lived just outside of Tuscaloosa and on my way home from Vermont I'd be passing through. I had seen a few of his YouTube videos so I knew he knew what he was doing. I contacted him to see if he'd be interested in rewiring the monitor top and if so I'd drop it off on my way home. That turned out to be one of the smartest moves I've made in a long time! He rewired it and tested it and found the needle and seat needed to be reworked because it wasn't cooling like it should. I had thought about rewiring it myself, I'm an electrician by trade, but I'm so glad I didn't. Had I not brought it to him on the way home I would have probably had to make a trip back to Tuscaloosa to get the cooling system working. It took a couple months to get it back from him because our schedules were misaligned, but it was well worth the wait! It works like brand new! Fun fact - When talking to him I mentioned I work offshore and I'd be going to Vermont on my days off and would bring it to him. He said he does offshore work as well and could be leaving any day to load test a generator on a platform but was being held up due to logistics. "umm... You're name isn't David Allen, is it?!?" That's right - he was coming to my platform! I had already spoken to him on a conference call at work a week or two before and had no idea! As luck would have it, I was at his house dropping off the monitor top while he was offshore on my platform fixing our generator, which by the way is running better than it ever has after David spent time working on it! I can't say enough good things about this man and his incredible knowledge of all things mechanical and his attention to detail. I'm confident the refrigerator will be around many years after I'm gone. A bonus to my 3700 mile roundtrip shopping spree was a short detour to pick up a near mint condition 1930's Tappan stove outside of Cleveland. We now have the 1930's kitchen my wife and I have been wanting. Now it's time to rip up the floor to get back down to the hardwood and build new cabinets. It's a never ending project. Thank you so much David! By the way, I still want one of those fans! Jerry |
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 22, 2021 14:34:58 GMT
Sorry for the delay updating this post, I've been very busy these past few weeks. After posting this thread I noticed one of the commenters, turbokinetic, lived just outside of Tuscaloosa and on my way home from Vermont I'd be passing through. I had seen a few of his YouTube videos so I knew he knew what he was doing. I contacted him to see if he'd be interested in rewiring the monitor top and if so I'd drop it off on my way home. That turned out to be one of the smartest moves I've made in a long time! He rewired it and tested it and found the needle and seat needed to be reworked because it wasn't cooling like it should. I had thought about rewiring it myself, I'm an electrician by trade, but I'm so glad I didn't. Had I not brought it to him on the way home I would have probably had to make a trip back to Tuscaloosa to get the cooling system working. It took a couple months to get it back from him because our schedules were misaligned, but it was well worth the wait! It works like brand new! Fun fact - When talking to him I mentioned I work offshore and I'd be going to Vermont on my days off and would bring it to him. He said he does offshore work as well and could be leaving any day to load test a generator on a platform but was being held up due to logistics. "umm... You're name isn't David Allen, is it?!?" That's right - he was coming to my platform! I had already spoken to him on a conference call at work a week or two before and had no idea! As luck would have it, I was at his house dropping off the monitor top while he was offshore on my platform fixing our generator, which by the way is running better than it ever has after David spent time working on it! I can't say enough good things about this man and his incredible knowledge of all things mechanical and his attention to detail. I'm confident the refrigerator will be around many years after I'm gone. A bonus to my 3700 mile roundtrip shopping spree was a short detour to pick up a near mint condition 1930's Tappan stove outside of Cleveland. We now have the 1930's kitchen my wife and I have been wanting. Now it's time to rip up the floor to get back down to the hardwood and build new cabinets. It's a never ending project. Thank you so much David! By the way, I still want one of those fans! Jerry Hi Jerry! I am so happy that you're pleased with the way your fridge is working; and the generator as well. That porcelain cabinet looks amazing there next to your stove as well. Love that kitchen setup... It is really ironic about the way we were talking to each other on two separate things and it took that long to realize it. Life's funny that way, isn't it! |
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Post by ckfan on Jul 22, 2021 21:46:55 GMT
Small world. David is seriously the man. Very nice job as always David. Looks like it’s chilling good and proper now. I also love that stove. Gorgeous.
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