hvacmarc
New Member
Got zapped by my fridge!
Posts: 10 
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Post by hvacmarc on Dec 10, 2013 19:57:13 GMT
Model: D2-A-16 No: 1108619 Type: S-62-S No: S6-60383 Bought it well used for a good price. The guy said it ran when they plugged it in 2 years ago. I left it sitting in the basement for 3 weeks before cleaning and starting it up. It was not plugged in. On startup, by pushing the tab on the control, the starter gave a little hum and the motor kind of shook to life. It's making this sound, which hasn't faded much: CompressorNoise.wav (24.94 KB) After about 10 seconds after startup there was a large pop, as if someone popped a champagne cork. The rattle noise didn't change. My service manual said the float may be stuck when it makes this noise. Some hobo latex painted this fridge and I scraped the paint off the float valve cap. Does this actually come off? It's copper and has a little horizontal indent. The indent is barely visible in the picture.  Even with the noise, the fridge cools, the condenser gets warm, frost forms on the evaporator porcelain. The biggest problem is that the entire case is live when it runs. Grabbing the handle gets you a big surprise. I suppose it's one way to prevent beer theft... Suggestions? I'm pretty handy, as I'm a plumber and HVAC guy but this is a tad older than me  |
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Post by cablehack on Dec 10, 2013 22:21:49 GMT
The loud pop does sound like the float valve suddenly letting go. My guess is that it was sticking and once the liquid built up enough, it allowed it to break free. 10 secs sounds about right. I know this well from my CA-2.
The valve cap should unscrew by hand, exposing the Bristol key charge valve screw under it.
As for the compressor being live, the wiring is usually brittle with insulation cracked and missing. So, don't be surprised if a bare wire is touching a copper tube etc. You will need to rewire it, and while you're at it, check the oil heater is working.
Another cause of it being live is around the glass seals going into the compressor. Moist insulation around here can cause leakage.
Either way, you'll have to get into the cabinet top to check it out.
If the worst comes to the worst, you can use a 500VA isolating transformer if the insulation has broken down inside the compressor.
Although it doesn't fix the problem, reversing the mains plug may eliminate the shock.
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hvacmarc
New Member
Got zapped by my fridge!
Posts: 10
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Post by hvacmarc on Dec 10, 2013 22:49:11 GMT
Thanks for the reply. Any thoughts on the rattle while it runs? I'm going to scrape more paint from the valve cap before I try to put pressure on it. It only feels like soft copper and it's definitely copper colored.
What is the best way to lift this lid? I saw the engine hoist method here but what do I connect to?
I'm going to try reversing the plug to see what happens, though not with my hand this time...
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Post by cablehack on Dec 10, 2013 23:13:06 GMT
The rattle is likely to be the result of an open circuit oil heater. It's a common fault with DR and CA machines. The resistance should be in the region of 1000 ohms. With the machine switched off at the control, measure the resistance across the plug pins. The heater is permanently connected across the line.
The heater needs to be given sufficient time to warm up the compressor oil before starting the compressor.
The official GE hoist had hooks which go into the holes in the condenser fins, but what I do is loop a piece of rope down the fins one side, around the neck of the compressor, then up the fins on the other side. I also include an extra piece of rope just in case - the unit is very heavy.
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hvacmarc
New Member
Got zapped by my fridge!
Posts: 10
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Post by hvacmarc on Dec 10, 2013 23:49:33 GMT
Thank you for all the information. I'm sure this is major repetition for you! I consulted the service manual but it us written for someone who has some experience with the hardware already, rather than a noob like me who needs, "unscrew this, poke that..." Scraping more paint on the cap allowed a minor victory. It came off, and happily, there is no smell of a leak under it.  I got the control off the base. The end of the starting resistor was heavily rusted so it was removed and I cleaned it. BUT... The hobo that had this fridge must have had it outside. There is a massive amount of water soaking the insulation panel. Is this panel accessible once the top is removed? If I hook power to the unit but don't start it, there is 75.2 VAC from the cabinet handle to ground. This must be leakage from the oil heater circuit? Going to measure the pin contacts now... Edit: 578 Ohms |
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Post by cablehack on Dec 11, 2013 0:32:05 GMT
It could be the leakage voltage you get is coming from the heater. With both my CA units, the heater wire insulation had crumbled away, and in the case of the CA-2, a bare wire was touching a copper tube. You can disconnect the heater wires and see if the leakage is still there. But, from the sounds of it, wet insulation is probably the cause. If so, you'll notice a drop in leakage current as it dries out.
It's awkward to get to the insulation, but can be done once the top is off. Probably best to wait until Allan chimes in here as he's quite experienced at DR insulation replacement in situ.
CA machines are more my area of experience, and I've always taken the cabinet top to pieces, which is easy when there's no refrigerant inside.
578 ohms is low but it would appear the heater is certainly not burnt out. If anything, it would be producing more than enough heat. Try waiting a few hours before starting the compressor after plugging in.
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Post by ChrisJ on Dec 11, 2013 0:38:09 GMT
Curious,
What is the resistance from each heater lead to the chassis?
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Post by coldspaces on Dec 11, 2013 3:19:36 GMT
Welcome to the forum from a fellow RHVAC Tech. Sounds like you have some work ahead but nothing that can't be worked out with the help you will receive here. Good luck!
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hvacmarc
New Member
Got zapped by my fridge!
Posts: 10
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Post by hvacmarc on Dec 12, 2013 2:45:29 GMT
Curious, What is the resistance from each heater lead to the chassis? Each is the same - 33.42 k Ohm, from each lead to the door handle. And, keeping the leads there for more than a few seconds causes the ohm reading to increase. In 5 seconds it was at 35 k Ohms. Removing and resetting the leads caused the same readings and rate of change. |
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Post by ChrisJ on Dec 12, 2013 3:09:12 GMT
Sounds like that is your leakage to the chassis, or at least some of it. The heater should measure open to the chassis from either lead.
Try disconnecting both heater leads and plugging the fridge in. See if you still measure anything from the door handle to ground.
I'm not sure about DRs but my 1933 CA form A machine's wires were in surprisingly good condition. They were different from the newer 2 conductor rubber cords found in the 1934 and up machines.
Does the DR used the same woven type cloth wires my form A machine had?
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hvacmarc
New Member
Got zapped by my fridge!
Posts: 10
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Post by hvacmarc on Dec 15, 2013 22:58:58 GMT
yes, it looks like woven cloth wire.
if there is no leakage to the case, can i start the fridge even though it is in a 60 degree cellar? the compressor is rather noisy at that temperature.
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Post by ChrisJ on Dec 16, 2013 0:49:03 GMT
I would avoid starting it when its chilly. I have not personally bought from them yet, but new heaters should be available from Cartridge Heaters LLC. I had bought 6 from another supplier but had problems with the supplier. Follow this link and scroll to the bottom for the information. This is for a 15W heater which is a tad more than the original but should work fine. I chose 15W as I feel the 12W ones I am using are barely enough. If you want, you could probably request 12W from them as well. The dimensions are 12mm x 63.5mm monitortop.freeforums.net/thread/6/new-heaters-ca-dr-machinesIf you do order from them, please let us know how everything goes. |
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hvacmarc
New Member
Got zapped by my fridge!
Posts: 10
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Post by hvacmarc on Dec 16, 2013 2:20:06 GMT
For the moment, then. I will disconnect the heater wires, test for shorts again and if none are found, heat the compressor from the outside with a small portable electric heater. Would 100 degrees be sufficient to boil off the refrigerant under the oil?
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Post by coldspaces on Dec 16, 2013 2:57:13 GMT
It is real hard to get the heat into the oil sump with an external heater. The factory heater is in the best location for heating the oil. I am still using a flexible drain heater in mine, seams to be working fine so far. Folded it and inserted it into the heater well. Supco drain heater PART NO. LENGTH LEADS WATTS VOLTS SH201 18" 23" 15 115  |
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hvacmarc
New Member
Got zapped by my fridge!
Posts: 10
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Post by hvacmarc on Dec 16, 2013 3:41:00 GMT
well i guess the question for me is - how do i get to the well? also, will the wet insulation cause problems?
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