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Post by greenmountainbill on Aug 13, 2019 19:23:29 GMT
Hello again. Have been working on my fridge since last March. Received some advice here but when it came down to it I did the cabinet work myself with new paint on the motorboard and motor cover, had the shelves re-nickel plated, bought and installed new rubber on doors, under motorboard, and on bottom edge of cover, bought and installed new decal, and replaced power cord and grounded the chassis. But the motor/compressor did not work so I took it to an appliance repair shop over in New York State that has several Monitor Top fridges for sale on their website. "Sure", they said, "no problem." When I picked it up after the repair I was told it needed a new relay. I reassembled the beautiful machine as you see it in the photo. I plugged it in, used the blue knob to turn it on and noted that the motor started right up and purred like quiet pussycat. BUT IT NEVER GOT COLD. ALL DAY- NO. OVER NIGHT- NO. THE NEXT DAY -NO. But it still purred like a kitten. Have tried to discuss problem with the repair folks in New York for weeks by email and phone. Left 8 phone messages. No call back. What do I do now? I have no idea. Who can I call for help? ADVICE? HELP. No refrigeration now in my Maine island cottage. GREEN MOUNTAIN BILL LINK TO PICS HERE: flic.kr/p/2gWsNP3flic.kr/p/2gWs1zP |
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Post by coldspaces on Aug 13, 2019 23:28:59 GMT
Are you sure the compressor is starting? or is it just the fan? It might have lost it's charge. Did it cool for them after they replaced the relay? It is an R-12 system, a refrigeration mechanic near you could work on it if they wanted.
Nice job on the restore. It look great!
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Post by greenmountainbill on Aug 14, 2019 0:01:11 GMT
I don't know. I am not sure what it should sound like. I have not talked to them to ask if everything works when they had it. They haven't returned my call. When dropping it off I asked them to check everything.
What if compressor is bad? Any chance of finding a replacement for the model I have? It has the double freezer unit. And if I find the correct replacement compressor, who would be able to install and recharge? The two local appliance repair places thought I was nuts when I called to ask about fixing it.
Thanks,
Bill
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Post by turbokinetic on Aug 14, 2019 1:39:43 GMT
Hi Bill. The most important thing to do is make methodical troubleshooting to see what is going wrong. You will need to use your senses as well as some instruments to figure out what is not happening.
One thing which will help us here on the forum to troubleshoot it with you is to make a video of the sound. Take the cover off the compressor first before trying to start it. Then, start recording and hold the camera near the compressor. While recording, switch the unit on. Record the sound from the compressor and any other parts which make sound.
After that, allow it to run. Feel the Freon lines around the compressor. See if you feel any lines getting warm, or cool. After an hour or so, see if the compressor its self is getting warm.
After that, you will need a power / current meter. Plug the refrigerator into a Kill-A-Watt meter or other power meter. Let us know how many amps and watts it is using.
These easy checks will help with finding the problem.
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Post by greenmountainbill on Aug 14, 2019 2:14:45 GMT
Ok, will do as much of it as I am able. Thanks, Bill
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Post by turbokinetic on Aug 14, 2019 20:10:17 GMT
Ok, will do as much of it as I am able. Thanks, Bill I feel as if this will be quite fixable. Let us know how it goes when you dig into it. |
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Post by turbokinetic on Aug 19, 2019 13:26:11 GMT
I don't know. I am not sure what it should sound like. I have not talked to them to ask if everything works when they had it. They haven't returned my call. When dropping it off I asked them to check everything. What if compressor is bad? Any chance of finding a replacement for the model I have? It has the double freezer unit. And if I find the correct replacement compressor, who would be able to install and recharge? The two local appliance repair places thought I was nuts when I called to ask about fixing it. Thanks, Bill Good morning Bill. I want to ask a couple of questions which will help us to troubleshoot.
When you dropped the fridge off for the appliance place to check everything, had you mentioned the GFCI tripping to them? Having not been there, I can't know what exactly was said word for word. However, if someone brought me a piece of equipment and asked for it to be checked out; I would probably assume two tings. One would be that you expect it could have a problem; that you just acquired it and have not attempted to run it. Either way, knowing that a fridge is supposed to provide cold storage, one of the main things I would have checked is how effectively the cooling system is operating.
The fact that they returned it and said something about the relay; makes me think they found a problem with it and were unable to source a relay for it. It must have been clear to them that it was not working or they would not have reported that the relay needed replacement.
When doing troubleshooting, it's important to be methodical and careful. It's bad to get emotional about things because that will lead you down the wrong path.
There are two electrical parts which someone could call a "Relay." We can't assume they meant the start-relay unless they specifically called this out. I will assume they could have been referring to the thermostat, or the start relay.
Normally, the start-relay will fail in a predictable manner. It will cause the compressor to hum, buzz, or click on and off. This will just repeat periodically with long periods of silence between. I am sure you would have noticed this sound, and realized it was not normal. I think that the relay should be kept in mind, but not condemned just yet.
The thermostat is another possibility. It is somewhat more vulnerable to damage while doing other work on the machine; than is the start-relay. The thermostat has a sensing tube which is threaded through from the top of the machine, through the insulation space under the motor mounting plate; and then attached to the evaporator inside the cabinet. Based on your initial statement that "used the blue knob to turn it on and the motor started right up" indicates to me, that the thermostat is working and completing the circuit. The blue knob is part of the thermostat, so turning it and getting a reaction confirms the thermostat is completing the circuit.
At this point, based on what I've seen here, it seems the thermostat is working, but the compressor is either (A) getting no power at all - just the fan is running. Or (B) the compressor started up and runs quietly but the system is not cooling.
To tell us which of these two scenarios is happening, it would be very useful to make a video of the startup sound at the compressor area with the cover removed.
In the meantime, there are some things which have to be considered.
One is that the wiring was replaced and there's something not connected correctly. This could cause the compressor to receive no power. Another is that the fridge was condemned in the past, and in preparation for scrapping, the refrigerant was removed. If this is the case, you would probably have noticed a small puncture mark on one of the lines. Finally, the shop who inspected the fridge could have genuinely found a bad start-relay. They could have determined that the relay was going to cause damage to the compressor or pose a safety hazard. They could have disconnected the compressor wiring, and taped it up inside the relay cover.
These scenarios are what we all face when acquiring these old machines and trying to get them up and going.
Looking forward to hearing what you found! Sincerely, David
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Post by ckfan on Aug 19, 2019 23:03:22 GMT
What he said...
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Post by Travis on Aug 20, 2019 15:56:05 GMT
Bill,
Did this unit ever run and cool for you? Did it not run at all when you took it to be looked at? It seems stupid that they might have replaced a relay, but returned a unit to you that didn't cool. Am I correct that it runs fine now, but doesn't cool?
If the picture of your compressor isn't current, that's an old type R relay. Did they replace that? If it runs, it's still good.
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Post by greenmountainbill on Aug 21, 2019 0:26:46 GMT
OK all you helpful Monitor Top enthusiasts, here is a link to my YouTube videos where I have just uploaded 3 short videos of my FEA being turned on, running, and an amp meter showing it's current draw_ of 3 amps.
UCUp4n5Ou80SpVv8wvZTqOnA
I am GREEN MOUNTAIN GRANDPA on YouTube (no smart remarks, please)
No, the unit did not run in any way when I got it home although the fellow I bought it from said it did work fine. After I bought it and discovered this group, I found that the previous owner had sent a message to the group giving a little history of the refrigerator.
I tried the refrigerator after a replacing the power cord. To noise or motion was observed.
A search on line yielded your this group and an appliance repair firm in Queensbury, NY, about 1-1/2 hours drive from my house. Interestingly, they had three GE MONITOR TOP refrigerators for sale on their opening page. I called to ask about repairing my unit and they told me to drop it off, which I did with instructions to repair it so it would work so I could use it as the sole refrigerator in my Maine island cottage.
I was never able to talk to a technician in person or on the phone about my machine. The receptionist in the office took my money and gave me a receipt that said BAD RELAY. when plugged in at home it turned on, hummed as you hear it 8n the video, it never got cold. I ran it for 24 hours. I believe that the hum I hear is the fan running. I have never heard any noise that sounds like a relay clicking or the compressor trying to start. The round cylinder, which I assume is the compressor,
Does get hot after it starts running (not too hot to touch) but none of copper lines get cold. That's the story.
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Post by Travis on Aug 21, 2019 1:15:15 GMT
The compressor is definitely running, but I think it’s empty.
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Post by turbokinetic on Aug 21, 2019 1:36:10 GMT
OK all you helpful Monitor Top enthusiasts, here is a link to my YouTube videos where I have just uploaded 3 short videos of my FEA being turned on, running, and an amp meter showing it's current draw_ of 3 amps. UCUp4n5Ou80SpVv8wvZTqOnA I am GREEN MOUNTAIN GRANDPA on YouTube (no smart remarks, please) No, the unit did not run in any way when I got it home although the fellow I bought it from said it did work fine. After I bought it and discovered this group, I found that the previous owner had sent a message to the group giving a little history of the refrigerator. I tried the refrigerator after a replacing the power cord. To noise or motion was observed. A search on line yielded your this group and an appliance repair firm in Queensbury, NY, about 1-1/2 hours drive from my house. Interestingly, they had three GE MONITOR TOP refrigerators for sale on their opening page. I called to ask about repairing my unit and they told me to drop it off, which I did with instructions to repair it so it would work so I could use it as the sole refrigerator in my Maine island cottage. I was never able to talk to a technician in person or on the phone about my machine. The receptionist in the office took my money and gave me a receipt that said BAD RELAY. when plugged in at home it turned on, hummed as you hear it 8n the video, it never got cold. I ran it for 24 hours. I believe that the hum I hear is the fan running. I have never heard any noise that sounds like a relay clicking or the compressor trying to start. The round cylinder, which I assume is the compressor, Does get hot after it starts running (not too hot to touch) but none of copper lines get cold. That's the story. Hi Bill. Thank you so much for producing the videos for us. I have placed your videos in playable format below: youtu.be/as-xk1x1Glowww.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3s00ULCt1Uwww.youtube.com/watch?v=F_HKIvlhscUSo, as for any information gleaned from the videos. Definitely the compressor is running. It sounds quite nice, I might add. When the unit started up, you could hear it start and the compressor ran quietly for a few moments, then gradually got louder. This would make me believe it was pulling into a vacuum as it ran. This would mean that probably, the refrigerant charge has been lost. So, the repair process will be to locate and repair the leak; and then to recharge the unit. Based on my experience (and I hope others will chime in as well) it seems that the most likely leak point will be somewhere around the evaporator or its lines. People end up damaging that by defrosting with sharp objects. If it were here sitting on the table in front of me right now - I would hook up a set of gauges and put some nitrogen in it. Then, spray the evaporator area with soap bubbles and look for a leak. This would most likely lead to discovery of the problem. A little stay-brite 8 solder and liquid acid flux will make it as good as new if the evaporator is punctured. Could you point us to the thread here, where the previous owner posted? Thanks and hope to hear more findings looking for a leak. Sincerely, David |
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Post by greenmountainbill on Aug 21, 2019 2:45:07 GMT
Finding a leak as you suggest and refilling with freon is beyond my capability but I really do need a refrigerator in Maine. We have a cooler with a few things in it and you might imagine how expensive it has been to buy ice everyday for it at the tiny island store. How (where )can I get the work done on this old machine? Suggestions will be gratefully accepted. I found the message to which I referred: monitortop.freeforums.net/thread/1489/1931-general-electric-refrigerator-monitorThanks, Bill |
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Post by turbokinetic on Aug 21, 2019 13:58:41 GMT
Finding a leak as you suggest and refilling with freon is beyond my capability but I really do need a refrigerator in Maine. We have a cooler with a few things in it and you might imagine how expensive it has been to buy ice everyday for it at the tiny island store. How (where )can I get the work done on this old machine? Suggestions will be gratefully accepted. I found the message to which I referred: monitortop.freeforums.net/thread/1489/1931-general-electric-refrigerator-monitorThanks, Bill Hi Bill. Thanks for linking back to that post. As for the repairs, I understood that you might not be able to do the work yourself. It's still good to have an idea of the troubleshooting and repair process which would be needed. I was hoping you would feel better knowing the path forward is very straightforward and there's no magic involved. The good thing about a FEA is that it uses R12 Freon and not SO2. This will open up many more repair shops who would be capable of working on it. The biggest issue is transportation / shipping. If you have access to a shipping service (a family member with a business and shipping dock?) it would be best to send it to a specialist. You would be able to chose someone who WANTS to work on these; instead of convincing someone to work on it when they only want quick money fixes on new machines. As I live in Alabama, I wouldn't know who to recommend in the NYC area. I have heard plenty of unfortunate stories of others trying to get fridges fixed in that part of the country. For that reason I sympathize with you and understand your frustration. Sincerely, David |
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Post by Travis on Aug 21, 2019 16:03:16 GMT
Bill,
Try calling around to local appliance repair or hvac companies. This isn’t that difficult if you find someone interested.
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