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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 18, 2018 2:23:13 GMT
Well, today I checked out the porcelain cabinet CA-2-B16 which I got recently. I was worried about it, after seeing the condition of the start relay. The winding was totally burned on the start relay, and the control (including the motor's overload breaker) was bypassed.
So, as I said - mechanical morons worked on it. Someone who had no idea what they were doing, and was completely incompetent and unqualified caused this unit to have zero chance of being restored without cutting open and rewinding.
Sincerely, David
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Post by ajc31980 on Nov 18, 2018 3:13:21 GMT
Awe man. That’s a real shame that someone fried the motor.
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 18, 2018 3:20:34 GMT
Awe man. That’s a real shame that someone fried the motor. Yes.... yes it is a shame. They burnt it and rurnt it.... |
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Post by ajc31980 on Nov 18, 2018 4:05:21 GMT
Awe man. That’s a real shame that someone fried the motor. Yes.... yes it is a shame. They burnt it and rurnt it.... Even tho mines a problem child, that would definitely cause me some pain to see something like happen to it. Or any of my vintage appliances for that matter. After rewatching that video it’s almost like someone purposely killed that machine! It’s damn shame ! |
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 18, 2018 4:25:10 GMT
Yes.... yes it is a shame. They burnt it and rurnt it.... Even tho mines a problem child, that would definitely cause me some pain to see something like happen to it. Or any of my vintage appliances for that matter. After rewatching that video it’s almost like someone purposely killed that machine! It’s damn shame ! I know the feeling. They did purposely kill it because they wanted to stop the overload tripping, so they bypassed it. That is how incredibly stupid some people are. They deserve the misfortunes they cause upon themselves, times ten!!! |
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Post by ckfan on Nov 18, 2018 16:31:49 GMT
Dang, that’s sad. You would think that once they tried to power it up and it didn’t start that they would have unplugged it and given up. That’s too bad.
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 18, 2018 17:53:12 GMT
Dang, that’s sad. You would think that once they tried to power it up and it didn’t start that they would have unplugged it and given up. That’s too bad.
Honestly, there are people so ignorant that they think the humming sound of a stuck compressor is the sound of it running. They then wait to see how long it takes for it to start cooling. In this case; the control kept turning its self off because it was tripping. They stupidly thought that the control was the problem since it keeps turning off. So they bypassed it and burned the motor.
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Post by Travis on Nov 19, 2018 16:03:14 GMT
Please keep in mind that damaging things is also how we learn. Before the internet and the availability of the manuals, the operation of these units was more difficult to understand. The refrigeration technicians wouldn't touch them and that led to a whole lot of self-guided hobbyists with good intentions, but lacking skills.
There's at least one CA2B unit waiting for you in St. Louis.
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 19, 2018 16:39:27 GMT
Please keep in mind that damaging things is also how we learn. Before the internet and the availability of the manuals, the operation of these units was more difficult to understand. The refrigeration technicians wouldn't touch them and that led to a whole lot of self-guided hobbyists with good intentions, but lacking skills. There's at least one CA2B unit waiting for you in St. Louis. Yes, definitely this is absolutely true; and sometimes you can't tell if you damaged it or it was already damaged to start with. I'm sure this has happened many times; especially before the days of the Internet.
I guess I need to clarify my original statement about mechanical morons. I'm all for people learning and trying things. I don't throw around insults unless it seems like someone went out of their way to mess up, in situations where almost anyone else would have stopped.
The evidence shows that they made a decision to bypass the control, which is risky but understandable. The moronism came when they were lacking very basic, generalist electrical awareness. This wouldn't matter if it were a refrigerator or table saw or any other device. After making a guesswork modification bypassing the control; the unit drew high current. It drew so much current, in fact, that the relay started smoking and the cord got hot.
So, they were morons because they did all of the following things:
1 - Made a guesswork attempt at an electrical repair.
2 - Lacked the most basic technical awareness to detect clear signs of problems, such as smoke, noise, and a cord getting hot.
3 - In spite of the lack of desired results, and appearance of undesired results - persisted with leaving power on.
So, I see multiple layers of failing to use common sense. But that is just my opinion! 
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Post by Travis on Nov 19, 2018 19:00:10 GMT
Common sense is a rare commodity
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Post by ckfan on Nov 19, 2018 23:21:22 GMT
Common sense is a rare commodity Amen! |
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 22, 2018 15:46:01 GMT
So, I dismantled this yesterday, and was amazed at the extent of the damage found.
Aside from the obviously burned winding; the compressor mechanism also showed signs of operating with the high pressure relief valve chattering open and closed constantly. I am relatively confident this was caused by running with air or noncondensable gases in the system. There is also copper plating on the lower cover of the compressor, and the bottom surface of the rotor.
The most incredible thing was the level of damage to the motor. The cotton insulation was completely turned to char with no structure left whatsoever. Most of it had sloughed off into the oil already. The next interesting thing was the unloader block. The heat from the motor burnout was so high that the solder melted out of the end, where the plug was installed. There is a solidified pool of solder remaining on top of the rotor.
The rotor and stator were completely bonded together by gummy corroded "stuff" (for lack of a better word). It looks like the oil and winding materials melted, filled the air gap of the motor, and then solidified. It then set up some sort of corrosive attack which has been slowly hardening and locking the rotor in place over the years.
It took a big puller to force the rotor out of the stator, resulting in severe additional damage to these parts.
Surprisingly, after all this, the compressor end still works, surprisingly well. I cleaned the parts, using methods which would not remove the copper plating, and reassembled the compressor. Even with the copper in place, it was free and turned like new.
This is so sad. You just don't find them this clean and nice anymore; save for the bent up evaporator. .JPG)
Notice the gouge at the lower left area of the picture? It s crescent-shaped and above / to the right of the tube.
.JPG)
Somebody broke Rule Number One - not using a sharp instrument to scrape off ice. Then they apparently broke rule number two, also... by using what appears to have been a meat tenderizing mallet on it as well....
.JPG)
After getting the evaporator plate off, I found this General Electric Inter-Office Memo. I wonder how Alice and Olga are doing now?
.JPG)
.JPG)
Now, it gets gnarly. The stator appears to be wound with modern magnet wire, but it's not. That is bare, raw copper wit absolutely no cotton remaining. There was some char on the winding when I first opened it, but the smell was so hideous that I had to wash it before continuing. Notice the outer surface of the rotor and the inner surface of the stator? That is unreal, and I've not seen that type of damage before. It took tons (literally) of force to separate the two.
.JPG)
Some of the remaining char on the winding. Ugh! I can smell it again when I see that picture!
.JPG)
Deep gouges in the rotor. That is from a puller, removing it from the compressor shaft.
.JPG)
Sadly vacant base.
.JPG)
All of this is failure debris. The compressor dome is designed so that the weld seam area is also a press-fit. None of the welding (or in this case cutting) debris can go into the compressor. So none of that is the result of the cutting-open process. It's all from the destruction of the motor.
.JPG)
The video is really long, but this is interesting stuff to me, and it seems there are quite a few who also share my interest as well. Hope you enjoy the video.... oh and be thankful they don't have smell effects through the screen on YouTube of there would be a lot of dislikes on this video!
youtu.be/LhXK0L3Rcgk
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Post by solarmike on Nov 22, 2018 16:10:35 GMT
Man I've seen some burned up motors in my day but that's the worst I have ever seen..... Even the car starter motors have I have seen never looked that bad.... WOW
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 22, 2018 16:30:34 GMT
Man I've seen some burned up motors in my day but that's the worst I have ever seen..... Even the car starter motors have I have seen never looked that bad.... WOW
I've seen some with more arcing and welding damage in the windings, but as far as overall deterioration factor; this one takes the cake so to speak.
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Post by ckfan on Nov 22, 2018 23:17:42 GMT
That is so sad! Well, now we know for certain that it never stood a chance.
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