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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 2, 2018 4:49:43 GMT
Ever get a chance to work on a "new" 80 year old piece of machinery? It seems I have!
This 1933 Frigidaire belongs to a mutual friend. He purchased it several years ago, but it has been in storage ever since. This is a belt-drive SO2 system, and his concern was with the danger this poses to his pets which would be trapped in the house with it while he's at work daily.
So; my tasks are to rewire it, install "conventional" 1/4" SAE Schrader charging ports, and convert it to R152A.
There are a huge amount of pictures here, but this is such an amazing piece it is worth the bandwidth!
I am placing the video link at the beginning because I think the pictures will be more meaningful after hearing me describe and talk about it. youtu.be/caskZbbA6M4
This is as close to New as you're going to find.
Even the back cover is nearly pristine.
The cord is atrocious, in spite of the condition of the rest of the unit.
Yes I did.... I did "man up and plug it in" as Travis would say! LOL!
No wear on the controls.
It's UL Approved and got the Good Housekeeping seal of approval!
That is so detailed!
Nameplate...
Motor is functional in spite of the horribly gummed commutator. It sparks and smokes when it starts.
And, you can change over to 220V if the need arises!
That is horrendous and treacherous, at best!
That will short out and burn the house down if you merely LOOK AT IT WRONG....
This wiring isn't as bad but it is very hard and crispy. Gotta go! Nice wiring diagram as well. No guesswork.
New cord soldered into the lampholder.
Frigidaire used tar to seal and protect the terminals. I used Permatex Right Stuff because it's what I had on hand.
In the interest of safety, I have installed grounding / bonding wires on all the parts which have wiring. The switch is grounded, the cabinet is grounded, the control is grounded, and the motor also will be grounded.
The cabinet is framed with wood. It's a grounding nightmare! The cabinet liner ground is shown:
The control is grounded so that there is no way the knobs will give a shock if there's a short.
The control is a Delco-Remy part. This is a 100% General Motors unit.
New wiring going in.
Much more flexible!
Wiring in place. The control wiring cover was warped and looking pretty ghetto. I made the steel strip to hold it flat. Also, all tar used to seal the wiring into the cabinet as been replaced with Permatex Right Stuff. I broke one of the wiring hold-down straps and made a new one.
The float chamber has been drilled out and threaded for 1/8" pipe thread. That will allow a regular 1/4" SAE Schrader service port to be installed there. This eliminates the need for using a Hermetic Service Kit.
Condensing unit is out. It was a b**ch to get out. Comes out the back and the lines are a mess to disconnect.
Love the details.... Again it's a GM product!
The low-side port is on the compressor base; and the high-side on the float chamber.
Flat belt pulley painted and ready to go on tomorrow.
So that's were she sits tonight!
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Post by Travis on Nov 2, 2018 5:51:10 GMT
Lou and I were talking about you today. It’s so nice to see this one get attended to. I’ll forward the link to the person Lou got it from also. This one has always been very special to Lou.
Hopefully it doesn’t kick your Frigidaire’s ass being so new and modern. You’re going to have a memorable photo op with three variants side by side.
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Post by birkie on Nov 2, 2018 13:01:33 GMT
Very nice! I'm increasingly getting an appreciation for these belt-drive units. Thanks for sharing
Do you plan on disassembling the compressor and/or disconnecting the evaporator to clean out the carbon crud?
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Post by ckfan on Nov 2, 2018 13:18:54 GMT
I’m in tears right now. This is beautiful.
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 2, 2018 14:41:54 GMT
Lou and I were talking about you today. It’s so nice to see this one get attended to. I’ll forward the link to the person Lou got it from also. This one has always been very special to Lou. Hopefully it doesn’t kick your Frigidaire’s ass being so new and modern. You’re going to have a memorable photo op with three variants side by side.
Haha! I figured I was being talked about... my ears were burning. Initially I thought that was just the effect of working in a mild SO2 environment all day...
It has obviously been taken care of very well. Either the previous owners didn't use it much, or it was a display somewhere most of its life. There's no way the cabinet could be in this shape otherwise. Under the Textolite strips, the wood was still like new with no water stains. It even smelled like new wood when the strip came off.
Will do a photo with all three. I'll have to set up a plywood divider between them so that no fights ensue!
I had commented that I was unsure if the system had been pumped down or not, because I only saw one valve. In reality, it had been pumped down. The compressor has two stop valves built into its head casting. They are fully internal and the covers over them looked like "just another part of the compressor." There was a leak at the float chamber outlet fitting, so most of the SO2 had escaped that way. The compressor its self, however, did still have pressure in it trapped by the stop valves.
I will have to make a special tool to access these valves since they are so far recessed into the compressor.
Very nice! I'm increasingly getting an appreciation for these belt-drive units. Thanks for sharing Do you plan on disassembling the compressor and/or disconnecting the evaporator to clean out the carbon crud? Aaron, it seems to have very low run-hours on it. The compressor had pressure in it and the shaft seal is still good. I don't want to disassemble it since this one is to stay as original as possible. If it turns out there are operational difficulties with it, then there will be no choice but to open it up.
I'm in a bit of a quandary as to the evaporator. It is not something I want to try to remove from the cabinet. These cabinets are sealed together with tar and used paper and other materials in them that can't be removed and put back. Because the lines enter the evaporator at the top, there's no way to "drain out" oil or flush solvent. I may end up pumping solvent through the evaporator with a hand pump. In other words, fill it to the top and keep "circulating solvent through" to dilute the oil which remains. Then I can boil that off with the vacuum pump.
I am concerned the evaporator has a lot of oil in it. The compressor has about 1/2" in the bottom, as checked by inserting a plastic strap into the sump and looking at the oil level. There was no significant oil in the condenser or float chamber.
I’m in tears right now. This is beautiful.
Awe, it is in amazing condition. When we loaded it up at Lou's place it was dirty. I simply wiped it down wit Rain-X and paper towels. It's porcelain coated so I figured glass cleaner would be a good choice!
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Post by jake on Nov 2, 2018 16:06:00 GMT
Such a well preserved refrigerator!! Museum quality, I think. So glad you're doing the restoration on it!! I saw some 1930s sales brochures on eBay. One was specifically a 1933 brochure. Frigidaire said their refrigerators used no more electricity than a light bulb! I noticed in your one video you mentioned about the correct belts for these. You might try your local NAPA. I work part time at NAPA and we can get belts that are double "V" style, moulded together, to make one belt. Among other things,they fit late '30s and early '40s GM cars. I'll see if I can get you a current part number as a reference. The belt specs are on the package and I believe NAPA's website too. There's several sizes to choose from.
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 3, 2018 5:58:35 GMT
Such a well preserved refrigerator!! Museum quality, I think. So glad you're doing the restoration on it!! I saw some 1930s sales brochures on eBay. One was specifically a 1933 brochure. Frigidaire said their refrigerators used no more electricity than a light bulb! I noticed in your one video you mentioned about the correct belts for these. You might try your local NAPA. I work part time at NAPA and we can get belts that are double "V" style, moulded together, to make one belt. Among other things,they fit late '30s and early '40s GM cars. I'll see if I can get you a current part number as a reference. The belt specs are on the package and I believe NAPA's website too. There's several sizes to choose from. Thanks Jake, it is so well preserved. I wish I had one in similar condition! That's interesting about the sales brochure stating the low energy use. This motor does seem very low-powered compared to some others. It almost seems underpowered. Cleaning the brushes and commutator helped it a lot!
Thanks for the belt info. The correct belt for these was (I believe) two separate belts, with a flat inside surface. In other words, the sides of the belt were angled like a vee belt; however the bottom was smooth and flat like a flat belt. I do know that normal vee belts don't work correctly. I already changed the motor pulley for a flat pulley; and installed a 4PK vee-ribbed flat belt. It rides correctly on both the compressor flywheel and the new motor pulley. These are so common and will be available inexpensively for years.
The parts cleaned and painted. The heater helps with paint drying since it's cool and damp today.
Motor stator cleaned thoroughly and winding re-varnished. Notice the odd appearance of this winding? it seems to have gaps.... that's because there is only a main (run) winding and no start winding. The wound rotor and brush system takes care of startup.
Centrifugal system cleaned up and made ready.
Brush gear and commutator cleaned up.
Back together! Believe it or not, the motor is running in this picture. Good camera!
Side view.
I love the way this condenser is made. It's a stamped and brazed solid copper part. Heavy as heck and really cool looking!
Close up of the commutator. Looks better without the coating of grease!
New service ports.
Now for the frustrating news. Initially, the compressor was leak free. It held vacuum for hours and there was nothing to indicate a shaft seal issue. However, after putting the skid back together, now it leaks. I tried running it in, with some refrigerant pressure in the system, for about 30 minutes. It didn't improve and left a puddle of oil on the floor. So, tomorrow the compressor comes back off and I will install a lip seal.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=D87Nq9YWGkw
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 4, 2018 3:54:52 GMT
So, today I decided that pouting and fuming about the bad shaft seal wasn't going to solve anything. So, I took the compressor back off the skid and set about replacement of the seal.
The seal retainer plate comes off, leaving what you see below. The round plate is the backing plate for the original seal. It is quite an intricate mechanical seal as you'll see soon.
The seal. That bright copper ring showing around the shaft hole is the actual sealing face. It is lapped to a surface on the front of a shoulder machined into the compressor shaft. There is a spring inside the seal which presses these faces together. Interestingly, the seal is designed so that pressure in the compressor crankcase actually works to force the faces apart. That makes little sense and I don't understand the design philosophy here. The system nameplate shows that it had a 125 PSI test pressure. When I got up to about 50 PSI, the seal started throwing out oil around the shaft.
You can see there is quite a bit of corrosioin on the shaft and the seal shoulder. That would not have lasted long if it had worked at all.
It's a twin cylinder compressor with eccentrics. Seems to have similar size pistons and stroke length to the larger twin cylinder unit in my 1931. That one has a much larger motor and evaporator, though. This one may be quite oversize for its application.
The shaft before machining. That has a healthy sized bearing journal! The journal looks almost brand new.
The shaft machined, polished, and the new Delphi seal kit.
The new and the original shaft seals. The aluminum holder for the new seal was machined from the housing of a failed automotive A/C compressor. It fits the seal.
The new seal, in its retainer, will clamp in place with the original retainer.
Different view. The black cone-shaped part inside the new seal is part of the dual-lip seal. That is a hard but elastic material, possibly similar to Teflon. It will stretch around the shaft, and provide part of the sealing effect. Then, internally, there is a rubber-like lip which is forced against the hard cone when pressure is on it. The cone prevents there from being any gap between the shaft and the rubber lip, so that the rubber won't be forced out by pressure.
All cleaned up and ready to go together!
New seal installed. The white thing over the shaft is a seal installer thimble. It allows the seal to go on with lip down, and protects the seal from the sharp edge of theh keyway. It is a special tool for working on the compressor from which this shaft seal was "borrowed."
Base re-sealed and back in place; and shaft seal in place.
And it's back together! Tomorrow will see if it holds. I have a space heater on it tonight to help cure the sealant.
In hindsight, I should have known better than to expect this shaft seal to still be good. It was exposed to SO2 for 80 years and sat up for decades. Now it has a fresh new seal which should take care of it for years to come!
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Post by elec573 on Nov 4, 2018 5:43:29 GMT
Very beautiful fridge, have never seen one that new looking !
Nice work as usual.
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 4, 2018 6:20:51 GMT
Very beautiful fridge, have never seen one that new looking ! Nice work as usual.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
You're right - this fridge is really amazing in its condition!
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Post by ckfan on Nov 4, 2018 14:51:06 GMT
I think other manufacturers like coldspot were using a similar type of seal but I could be wrong. I think it had a bellows like this one that pressed harder as the pressure increased. Makes you think it would all leak out as the pressure drops.
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 4, 2018 15:37:52 GMT
I think other manufacturers like coldspot were using a similar type of seal but I could be wrong. I think it had a bellows like this one that pressed harder as the pressure increased. Makes you think it would all leak out as the pressure drops.
Hi Ray. I believe they were fairly common in the days of SO2. Back then there was nothing other than metal which could withstand the effects of this substance. The seal from my 1931 Frigidaire was also a mechanical seals with a bellows. It was so severely shredded it was hard to tell how it was originally made. It had frozen to the shaft and I forced the flywheel to turn by hand. At first it was really hard to turn. Then, there were popping, crunching, and hissing noises. After that it was very easy (and smelly) to turn.
In re-thinking this - I believe I was not entirely correct about the effect of pressure on the bellows. Because the open end of the bellows is exposed to atmospheric pressure, at both ends, that would mean the gas pressure would only compress the bellows from the outside in "radially" and not "mash down" the bellows lengthwise, opening a gap between the seal faces.
In looking at the failed seal, it seems that the inside of the bellows is corroded on one side. This could have thinned and softened it. Therefore, when the pressure is exerted on it, it caves in on that one side, tipping the seal faces apart from each other.
Interestingly, back in the day, they didn't use the term 'bellows' for this part. A bellows was most exclusively a device for blowing air such as for fanning a fire or powering a pipe organ. The folded nature of the sides of the bellows lent its name to anything with similar appearance.
In the days when these machines were common, any metallic expanding bellows was referred to as a 'sylphon.' If you're looking in the literature on these machines, you'll run across that term. Now-a-days when fireplace bellows have been relegated to the history books, anyone who hears the term "bellows" will envision a small corrugated device like we are discussing here... or they will think of what a cow does when it's feeling upset!
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 5, 2018 4:45:42 GMT
So, I made good progress on this Frigidaire today!
First order of business was to re-visit the motor. I wasn't happy with some aspects of the repulsion-induction system. It was sometimes not resetting back to start mode, when the motor was stopped. That would cause the motor to "just hum" for a few seconds. The it would snap back into start mode and start. It did that two or three times. I replaced the brush holder with another one which has less wear on it. This made the motor look better from the back as well. Look at that snazzy copper commutator showing there, without any clutter in front of it!
Now hopefully this is the final time. New seal on the compressor, and new brush holder in the motor!
Unit is back in and vacuum pump running.
Got the insulation on the liquid line. It runs at an intermediate pressure and the line will sweat without it.
Back cover is on.
Looks like it never even happened LOL!
Looks ready for another 80 years!
So, here is video of charging the unit with refrigerant. I didn't edit out any of it; however I did speed up the parts where I wasn't speaking and nothing interesting was happening. There was rain today, and that sort of messed with the audio. The unit took about 1.25 cans of R152A and I may have slightly overcharged it. Will have to see.
The float needle and seat are at the condensing unit. They run low pressure liquid to the evaporator. To keep the refrigerant from boiling at the float seat outlet, they have a backpressure check valve at the evaporator. It keeps the liquid line at a slightly elevated pressure to keep the refrigerant in a liquid form. I wasn't thinking about that and was watching for that point to frost. It didn't frost because that backpressure valve was working correctly! By the time I checked the evaporator, it was already fully frosted and possibly a little overcharged.
So, how's that for cold?
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Post by ckfan on Nov 5, 2018 14:56:08 GMT
Like you said, it’s hard to tell with the rain noise but it seemed to be very quiet. I can’t get over how cool that motor sounds on startup! I bet that freaked out more than one housewife. This is really neat stuff. Seeing it all together and working is a thing of beauty. Makes you wonder why they would put all that time and effort into making a new type of belt drive system with a new condenser and high side float when the meter misers were already being released.
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 5, 2018 15:45:11 GMT
Like you said, it’s hard to tell with the rain noise but it seemed to be very quiet. I can’t get over how cool that motor sounds on startup! I bet that freaked out more than one housewife. This is really neat stuff. Seeing it all together and working is a thing of beauty. Makes you wonder why they would put all that time and effort into making a new type of belt drive system with a new condenser and high side float when the meter misers were already being released.
Hi Ray; thanks for the positive comment! It is really quiet in real life as well. Much quieter than either Travis's or my larger belt-drive units.
You really have a good point about why to build a new type of belt drive system at this point. It may have been a way to allow them to continue offering a direct-current model (without a rotary converter as GE did) concurrently to the Meter-Miser systems. And; again; we know how people resist change and are afraid of new things. There were probably hold-outs who were not ready to have a "non repairable" sealed compressor.
I do love the brush motor "spool-up" sound it has. That is one of the most unusual and interesting traits of these. I do expect it to get quieter as the brushes wear in. I had to replace the brushes and brush holder, therefore they are not currently matched to the commutator wear pattern.
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