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Post by ajc31980 on Jun 24, 2018 2:28:59 GMT
Sadly I think progress has stopped at the half way point. I tired advice on heating up the capillary tube and it didn’t change anything. I did how ever get some numbers to call from a coworker of mine. He said both are guys that have been doing work on Appliances for a long time and that one of them may be able to help. Keeping my fingers crossed. Of course with it being the weekend I couldn’t get ahold of anyone today. So hopefully Monday will bring me some luck. I was also wondering, since r12 coolant isn’t really used anymore. What could be used in this ridge to replace it ? That’s if it does need recharged . I kinda want to know everything I can . So when I talk to these guys I have to something to argue with lol.
That's so frustrating about it not continuing to improve.
There's still R12 out there, but it's costly. If the fridge is low on charge, but the leak is not able to be found (a 20 year leak?) they can add R12 to it. The amount needed wouldn't likely be very expensive in the grand scheme of things.
When you contact the repair guys, they will probably have a procedure in mind to troubleshoot it and fix it. I would offer what you have seen and heard with the fridge, but be careful that they don't feel as if you're trying to sway them to do any certain thing first. I hope that doesn't come across wrong - I'm not trying to criticize you! I know how repair people are. Often you have "one shot" when you first meet them to not make them feel uneasy. If that goes well, then they'll often go the extra mile. Remember that whoever comes will be stepping way outside their comfort zone to troubleshoot this for you.
As far as refrigerant alternatives, there is a CG ball-top with R152A that's been running for a couple years. There's also Andrew's CK that has had R152A for a month or so now and is working awesome. I have a meter-miser Frigidaire with R152A which is also working excellently. This refrigerant may be something the repair guys are hesitant to use. If they are not open to using it; there are other alternatives sold in the automotive trades that are R12 substitutes. They are mixtures of gases that approximate the temperature / pressure curve of R12. The problems are, blends tend to separate and leak out their different components at different rates. In my opinion, based on what life has taught me with car A/C - blends are a second choice. A pure refrigerant such as R152A, R12, R134A is a better choice for the longterm life of the machine.
If your problem ends up being a blockage, the repair guys have a refrigerant recovery machine that can remove and save the charge for re-use. They can remove the refrigerant, cut open the lines so that the ends of the capillary tube are visible, and work with the blockage directly.
Good luck getting someone who is enthusiastic about the old machines! Will be anxiously watching.
Hi David Thank so much for all of that information. I’ve been searching online and have seen bits and peace’s of what you said. But nothing really pertaining directly to my situation. Some times I just need someone to spell it out for me. I didn’t take your comments as criticism at all. I know exactly what you mean. I worked a customer service type job for close to 15 years. I’m always very polite when dealing with any one who has to deal with the public. When I said I needed something to to argue with I just meant it in a humorous way haha . I just want to be able to possibly suggest a few alternatives if someone does come to look at it and basically says it’s dead in the water or it’s too old to do anything with. Thanks AJ
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Post by ajc31980 on Jun 24, 2018 2:38:41 GMT
I just want to take a minute and say thank you to everyone who has commented and tried to help me out over this last week. I’m definitely happy to have found this forum. Even if I don’t get this refrigerator working again. I can honestly say I know more about refrigeration now than I ever did before. I have belonged to other vintage appliance forums in the past and can honestly say this has to be one the friendliest groups of people I’ve come across. I’ll keep you all posted on what I find out. Thanks again AJ
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 24, 2018 2:39:22 GMT
Hi David Thank so much for all of that information. I’ve been searching online and have seen bits and peace’s of what you said. But nothing really pertaining directly to my situation. Some times I just need someone to spell it out for me. I didn’t take your comments as criticism at all. I know exactly what you mean. I worked a customer service type job for close to 15 years. I’m always very polite when dealing with any one who has to deal with the public. When I said I needed something to to argue with I just meant it in a humorous way haha . I just want to be able to possibly suggest a few alternatives if someone does come to look at it and basically says it’s dead in the water or it’s too old to do anything with. Thanks AJ Cool! Yeah I also work as a customer service rep and have to deal with some stress along these lines.
I don't expect they will tell you "it's dead because it's too old" if you are upfront about wanting it repaired "because it's a valuable antique" and not as a cost saving measure against buying a new fridge.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 24, 2018 2:44:45 GMT
I just want to take a minute and say thank you to everyone who has commented and tried to help me out over this last week. I’m definitely happy to have found this forum. Even if I don’t get this refrigerator working again. I can honestly say I know more about refrigeration now than I ever did before. I have belonged to other vintage appliance forums in the past and can honestly say this has to be one the friendliest groups of people I’ve come across. I’ll keep you all posted on what I find out. Thanks again AJ
I really feel the same way, after coming here looking for support for a CK monitor top repair. I think most of us are here because we are passionate about keeping these old machines useful and helping to share the knowledge learned along that path.
Surely you will get your GE working correctly again.
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Post by ajc31980 on Jun 26, 2018 1:49:16 GMT
Hi David Thank so much for all of that information. I’ve been searching online and have seen bits and peace’s of what you said. But nothing really pertaining directly to my situation. Some times I just need someone to spell it out for me. I didn’t take your comments as criticism at all. I know exactly what you mean. I worked a customer service type job for close to 15 years. I’m always very polite when dealing with any one who has to deal with the public. When I said I needed something to to argue with I just meant it in a humorous way haha . I just want to be able to possibly suggest a few alternatives if someone does come to look at it and basically says it’s dead in the water or it’s too old to do anything with. Thanks AJ Cool! Yeah I also work as a customer service rep and have to deal with some stress along these lines.
I don't expect they will tell you "it's dead because it's too old" if you are upfront about wanting it repaired "because it's a valuable antique" and not as a cost saving measure against buying a new fridge.
Hi Dave. Today I was basically told it’s to old and that parts can not be found for it. And another guy told me it’s not worth the $50 service call, laughed at me and hung up. I tried explaining what it’s Symptoms are one said if it’s low on Freon there’s no point in charging it cause it will just leak out and it told and can’t be fixed. But this is typical in my area. If it’s not brand new or under warranty you’re outa luck. Feeling little a little discouraged at the moment. I’m not sure if I wanna tackle this on my own or not. I’d really hate to destroy this refrigerator by accident. Kinda wish I had a junky one to practice on lol.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 26, 2018 1:59:05 GMT
Cool! Yeah I also work as a customer service rep and have to deal with some stress along these lines.
I don't expect they will tell you "it's dead because it's too old" if you are upfront about wanting it repaired "because it's a valuable antique" and not as a cost saving measure against buying a new fridge.
Hi Dave. Today I was basically told it’s to old and that parts can not be found for it. And another guy told me it’s not worth the $50 service call, laughed at me and hung up. I tried explaining what it’s Symptoms are one said if it’s low on Freon there’s no point in charging it cause it will just leak out and it told and can’t be fixed. But this is typical in my area. If it’s not brand new or under warranty you’re outa luck. Feeling little a little discouraged at the moment. I’m not sure if I wanna tackle this on my own or not. I’d really hate to destroy this refrigerator by accident. Kinda wish I had a junky one to practice on lol.
People like that are the reason service companies (in general) have such a bad reputation.
While not having new OEM parts is true, remember on other threads, so much is getting fixed without "parts." Kevin's DR is getting a rewind without any support from GE. Andrew's CK got a broken line fixed with only solder. It's all possible and what you heard today are the words of idiots. If they don't want your money bad enough to come look at it, they don't deserve it.
Sorry to sound irritated but this really makes me mad. If I told a customer that their generator was too old etc. my supervisor would send me to remedial customer service school.... without pay!
What region are you in again? Sorry if you've stated that already but I don't remember.
If it's low on Freon - find the leak and fix the leak. That's their job. They are basically saying they aren't able to do their primary job. Complete vote of zero confidence.
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Post by elec573 on Jun 26, 2018 2:42:53 GMT
Have you determined what the problem is yet ? Low on refrigeration? If so that implies a leak maybe really small would take years to lose its charge. Or do you have some kind of blockage? Maybe just partiality.
If it is a very small leak you could try soap and water and look for bubbles, but something very small you would need some kind of gas sniffer . Maybe some one else could suggest something for this . Where the joints are is suspect.
You tried the oil logging ,of heating up the evaporator ? I think I would be aggressive on this heat it up . Especially around area that is not frosting up . I used a heat gun on one of mine.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 26, 2018 2:51:20 GMT
Have you determined what the problem is yet ? Low on refrigeration? If so that implies a leak maybe really small would take years to lose its charge. Or do you have some kind of blockage? Maybe just partiality. If it is a very small leak you could try soap and water and look for bubbles, but something very small you would need some kind of gas sniffer . Maybe some one else could suggest something for this . Where the joints are is suspect. You tried the oil logging ,of heating up the evaporator ? I think I would be aggressive on this heat it up . Especially around area that is not frosting up . I used a heat gun on one of mine. I have a hunch that he's got a blockage, because of the failure narrative. It worked until laid down and transported in a horizontal position. Then next day no worky. I have a feeling that some oil sludge made its way through the condenser and is now affecting the capillary tube. There has been some improvement after it has been run for a few hours, but not a full recovery.
In addition to the heat gun on the evaporator, tracing the cap tube from one end to the other with the heat gun, could very well help to soften up whatever might be in there.
It's so infuriating to see a fellow enthusiast get treated this way by the local service companies.
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Post by ckfan on Jun 26, 2018 3:33:16 GMT
You will get it fixed. It’s worth it for sure. Such a nice example. Those hacks don’t deserve your business. It aggravates me too. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve had people say it can’t be done. Quit saying can’t and figure it out! I understand that they aren’t trained on old stuff but it isn’t much different. If anything, it’s easier to work on with service ports. I would have told that guy who was laughing to, well, you know.
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Post by ajc31980 on Jun 26, 2018 6:43:37 GMT
You will get it fixed. It’s worth it for sure. Such a nice example. Those hacks don’t deserve your business. It aggravates me too. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve had people say it can’t be done. Quit saying can’t and figure it out! I understand that they aren’t trained on old stuff but it isn’t much different. If anything, it’s easier to work on with service ports. I would have told that guy who was laughing to, well, you know. Trust me I was umm... spitting tacks after I Hung up the phone.
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Post by ajc31980 on Jun 26, 2018 7:39:26 GMT
Have you determined what the problem is yet ? Low on refrigeration? If so that implies a leak maybe really small would take years to lose its charge. Or do you have some kind of blockage? Maybe just partiality. If it is a very small leak you could try soap and water and look for bubbles, but something very small you would need some kind of gas sniffer . Maybe some one else could suggest something for this . Where the joints are is suspect. You tried the oil logging ,of heating up the evaporator ? I think I would be aggressive on this heat it up . Especially around area that is not frosting up . I used a heat gun on one of mine. I have a hunch that he's got a blockage, because of the failure narrative. It worked until laid down and transported in a horizontal position. Then next day no worky. I have a feeling that some oil sludge made its way through the condenser and is now affecting the capillary tube. There has been some improvement after it has been run for a few hours, but not a full recovery.
In addition to the heat gun on the evaporator, tracing the cap tube from one end to the other with the heat gun, could very well help to soften up whatever might be in there.
It's so infuriating to see a fellow enthusiast get treated this way by the local service companies.
I think may have said what area I’m in on an earlier post. But this threads getting kind of long haha. makes it easy to forget or hard sift back through and find things. I’m in the Johnstown Pennsylvania area. No if I lived in a bigger city like Pittsburgh I might be having better luck. No worry’s about sounding annoyed. I was def annoyed after the one phone call. I ran into this same issue And attitude years ago when I first left Home and moved into my first apartment. I was trying to get somebody to work on an old hot point washer that I picked up second hand. That probably would’ve been the first vintage appliance I ever worked on. From that point on I fixed all of my own stuff. In a way I have two Frustrations. The service people in my area that are not willing to help and for the first in a long time I have an appliance that I can’t fix myself. Ugh ! From what I’ve read and what you all have told me. I’m thinking along the lines of a blockage as well because you can literally count the coils back to the same spot every time to where it stops. On the right side originally it was count back 5 coils on the evaporator to where the frost line stops now it’s count back 2. But you can tell if you time it, it starts to slow down after it hits that fifth coil. Yes I’ve literally stared at it watching the frost form with a stopwatch LOL. It’s 6 minutes for the top shelf and 1/4 of the right side of the evaporator to get good and frosty. Then it starts to creep along for about another six minutes and then just stops. With the door shut for a few hours it will start to get kind of frosty on the rest of the evaporator but it seems more like ambient cold? Or or just conducted cold? through the metal of the evaporator because with the slightest amount of warm air it starts to melt back to the frost line. I don’t want to upload a bunch of pics because I saw on another thread for the 31 Frigidaire the space is running low for the forum so I don’t want to waste it. As for the capillary line I can only get to parts of it. I can see part of it down by the compressor then it looks to be running along with the return line from the evaporator through a metal housing or tube not sure how to describe it properly. And this tube or housing is behind the condenser on the back of the refrigerator which is not an open screen type, it’s covered completely with a piece of metal and the coils are attached to that on the inside. it looks like if I really wanted to get to it I would have to take the condenser off of the back, which I’m afraid to do because I don’t want to break any lines. I had tried heating up what I could get to with a hair dryer. I was able to get the evaporator and condenser line Hot enough that I couldn’t touch it. In fact I burned up the hair dryer I ran it so long . . I’m off this Wednesday. I’m going to go buy a new heat gun and give another go . I will also try the soap and water trick and see if I can see any bubbles. I work late hours 3pm to 3am during the week. So it makes it kind of tough to call around to talk to anyone or run out and buy stuff sometimes. I do very much appreciate everybody’s comments and input and even the support. I didn’t really expect everybody to get so fired up as they did over how the service people are in my area. Nice feeling to know I’m not the only one who gets irritated over the stuff. Thanks AJ
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Post by ajc31980 on Jun 26, 2018 9:43:08 GMT
I have a hunch that he's got a blockage, because of the failure narrative. It worked until laid down and transported in a horizontal position. Then next day no worky. I have a feeling that some oil sludge made its way through the condenser and is now affecting the capillary tube. There has been some improvement after it has been run for a few hours, but not a full recovery.
In addition to the heat gun on the evaporator, tracing the cap tube from one end to the other with the heat gun, could very well help to soften up whatever might be in there.
It's so infuriating to see a fellow enthusiast get treated this way by the local service companies.
I think may have said what area I’m in on an earlier post. But this threads getting kind of long haha. makes it easy to forget or hard sift back through and find things. I’m in the Johnstown Pennsylvania area. No if I lived in a bigger city like Pittsburgh I might be having better luck. No worry’s about sounding annoyed. I was def annoyed after the one phone call. I ran into this same issue And attitude years ago when I first left Home and moved into my first apartment. I was trying to get somebody to work on an old hot point washer that I picked up second hand. That probably would’ve been the first vintage appliance I ever worked on. From that point on I fixed all of my own stuff. In a way I have two Frustrations. The service people in my area that are not willing to help and for the first in a long time I have an appliance that I can’t fix myself. Ugh ! From what I’ve read and what you all have told me. I’m thinking along the lines of a blockage as well because you can literally count the coils back to the same spot every time to where it stops. On the right side originally it was count back 5 coils on the evaporator to where the frost line stops now it’s count back 2. But you can tell if you time it, it starts to slow down after it hits that fifth coil. Yes I’ve literally stared at it watching the frost form with a stopwatch LOL. It’s 6 minutes for the top shelf and 1/4 of the right side of the evaporator to get good and frosty. Then it starts to creep along for about another six minutes and then just stops. With the door shut for a few hours it will start to get kind of frosty on the rest of the evaporator but it seems more like ambient cold? Or or just conducted cold? through the metal of the evaporator because with the slightest amount of warm air it starts to melt back to the frost line. I don’t want to upload a bunch of pics because I saw on another thread for the 31 Frigidaire the space is running low for the forum so I don’t want to waste it. As for the capillary line I can only get to parts of it. I can see part of it down by the compressor then it looks to be running along with the return line from the evaporator through a metal housing or tube not sure how to describe it properly. And this tube or housing is behind the condenser on the back of the refrigerator which is not an open screen type, it’s covered completely with a piece of metal and the coils are attached to that on the inside. it looks like if I really wanted to get to it I would have to take the condenser off of the back, which I’m afraid to do because I don’t want to break any lines. I had tried heating up what I could get to with a hair dryer. I was able to get the evaporator and condenser line Hot enough that I couldn’t touch it. In fact I burned up the hair dryer I ran it so long . . I’m off this Wednesday. I’m going to go buy a new heat gun and give another go . I will also try the soap and water trick and see if I can see any bubbles. I work late hours 3pm to 3am during the week. So it makes it kind of tough to call around to talk to anyone or run out and buy stuff sometimes. I do very much appreciate everybody’s comments and input and even the support. I didn’t really expect everybody to get so fired up as they did over how the service people are in my area. Nice feeling to know I’m not the only one who gets irritated over the stuff. Thanks AJ Additional thought when I hauled this refrigerator it was laid on its left side. I didn’t realize it at the time but both tubes come out of the left side of the compressor so it is very possible that it does in deed have an oil clog in it. I don’t why it didn’t hit me before now. Thing is I chose to lay it on its left side because the evaporator on the right side and I didn’t want oil getting into the evaporator. Perhaps it would’ve been better the other way around? Just a thought AJ
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Post by ckfan on Jun 26, 2018 12:56:11 GMT
Yep, it would have been better to lay it on the other side. That’s ok though. You are learning a lesson from it! I just hope that we can help you get it unclogged.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 26, 2018 13:08:07 GMT
No worry’s about sounding annoyed. I was def annoyed after the one phone call. I ran into this same issue And attitude years ago when I first left Home and moved into my first apartment. I was trying to get somebody to work on an old hot point washer that I picked up second hand. That probably would’ve been the first vintage appliance I ever worked on. From that point on I fixed all of my own stuff. In a way I have two Frustrations. The service people in my area that are not willing to help and for the first in a long time I have an appliance that I can’t fix myself. Ugh ! It is so sad, really. Like they just are apathetic and floating along only wanting to do the same thing over and over; while at the same time wondering why their life sucks. What do you bet they have unsweetened corn flakes (plain) every morning for breakfast; and eat the same super greaseburger from the same McCheapo restaurant every day for lunch; and wonder why they're fat. This really sounds like the evaporator its self is filled with oil. Too bad about the hairdryer filure! A heating gun is a good thing to have, anyway for all sorts of projects. Good investment. No problem. I think I speak for most of us here when saying that we all feel your pain about the service people. For me it gets worse when it's my parents who are getting rooked. When I am out of town on work assignments, they are at the mercy of these shysters. They got taken for $12,000 for two new central A/C systems a few years ago. One of their systems needed an evaporator coil which I had already but hadn't installed. The other one did stop cooling while I was out of town, and I never found out what was wrong. But the fast talking crook talked so much BS to my elderly parents that they agreed for TWO new systems. I am 99.9% sure that proper troubleshooting was not done. VERY good information. On this unit (if I am not mistaken) the compressor shell is part of the low side of the system. That means that the return line from the evaporator (the larger line) goes directly from the evaporator to the compressor shell. Most of the compressor's oil stays in this shell where the spinning rotor picks it up to oil the mechanism. Therefore, if the unit was laid down on its side, with the lines exiting the compressor "downwards," the oil would have a direct path to the evaporator. One might tend to think that the flow of refrigerant would push the oil through the evaporator, but maybe not. It seems that things flow thorugh the path of least resistance, and you have 4 or 5 open tubes in the evaporator, that freely flow the refrigerant. The others have a slug of oil in them which is staying in place by whatever means. One method that I have read about here but may not have seen in this thread is the hot water bag method. Fill up a large Ziploc bag with hot water from the faucet. Place this into the evaporator, making the bag have good contact with the evaporator coil. The goal is to force whatever refrigerant is in there to rapidly boil and drive the oil back into the compressor. It would probably be good to have the compressor running so that it will draw the oil down the suction line once it is raised up into the evaporator header space.
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Post by coldspaces on Jun 26, 2018 22:21:53 GMT
Try running the frig till the compressor is warmed up and then shut it off. Listen to the sound of the Freon going thru the cap tube. Time how long it takes for the system to balance out. It should not take more than 5 mins. If so it may be oil logged or restricted. I would think if it was just oil that it should have started to clear out though as you do get some flow. Its not like its totally plugged.
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