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Post by ckfan on Sept 21, 2017 0:08:40 GMT
If the noise came from the compressor was the unloader stuck and holding the suction valve open? I don't see what else it would have been other than a restricted float. Maybe that the slug caused pressure that freed up the unloader. Hey everyone! It's crow eating time! The flat top shot craps again last night. In fact I came home to it. Son of a diddly. Turned it off and let it warm up. Then it came back to life! Strange thing is that when I turned it off the evaporator wasn't making any noise. Like it was dry. It was defrosted. Then when I went to turn it on, before I flipped the switch, it was already boiling. Hmm... This time it decided to not work for long. In the morning it was doing it again. It has a very tinny, clicky sound. So strange. So, I decided to move it to the back room and move my 37 Westinghouse in place of it. It is currently cycling like mad to freeze two trays and cool down the liquor. It always has short cycled but seems to be fine. Now I'm wondering what is really causing this. The kicker? Any time you let it warm up it will take off and run again. Trouble is this problem seems to be getting more frequent.
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Post by timeswelding on Sept 21, 2017 0:14:07 GMT
Same thing my CK2 does. Replace it with a DR2. Problem solved.
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Post by birkie on Sept 21, 2017 0:45:53 GMT
Hm,for some reason, this post by blackhorse came to mind: monitortop.freeforums.net/post/16211Could there be some sort of vapour lock happening, which prevents the liquid SO2 from getting to the float? I don't know what would initiate that sort of thing in your case, though. Just a shot in the dark. Really, I'm curious if your float is full of liquid (like a classic plugged or stuck float), or gas.
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Post by blackhorse on Sept 21, 2017 4:57:38 GMT
In normal refrigeration, a problem that only happens when it's cold, and then goes away when it's warm, is almost always moisture in the sealed system, freezing to ice in the orifice.
I only put this out there as a statement. I have NO IDEA how this would come about in a monitor top. Without the smell. Without corrosion.
But I do remember reading in one of the old books about pre-hermetic belt-drive refrigerators having the same thing happen; moisture leaks in because the compressor/evaporator run under partial vacuum.
This would seem to explain the evaporator seeming to be dry, and then boiling when it warms up and the iced orifice breaks loose.
I don't have great faith in this conclusion; it's only a theory.
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Post by blackhorse on Sept 21, 2017 5:39:23 GMT
Hm,for some reason, this post by blackhorse came to mind: monitortop.freeforums.net/post/16211Could there be some sort of vapour lock happening, which prevents the liquid SO2 from getting to the float? I don't know what would initiate that sort of thing in your case, though. Just a shot in the dark. Really, I'm curious if your float is full of liquid (like a classic plugged or stuck float), or gas. Just thinking. Aimlessly. The float on these is above the condenser outlet, by quite a little bit. The only compelling reason for the liquid to go UP is difference in temperature. (Pressure = temperature in a saturated system). So if the condenser ever cooled below the temperature of the top of the refrigerator, liquid would just stop moving to the float. The float would close. The evaporator would pump down. The float is fairly insulated. Insulation packed around it. If the ambient temperature dropped the condenser would cool faster than the float. No refrigerant flow. BTW, the float can be lifted with a magnet, as discussed here: monitortop.freeforums.net/post/5857/threadYou can hear the float hit the top of the float housing when you do that. But of course if the float linkage is broken it still won't open. Which is probably not the case here, since it DOES work on some occasions. I agree with birkie, it would be interesting to know if the float chamber was filled with gas or liquid. Again just thinking ..... If the float chamber were filled with gas, and you applied a heat source to the side of it just briefly, it should leave a hot spot, right? And if it were filled with liquid, not so much of a hot spot? So not have to vent any gas to find out?
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Post by birkie on Sept 21, 2017 11:09:31 GMT
Yeah, water in the system would be ... wow ckfan: maybe it'll present you with an opportunity to find out what's in that float!
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Post by blackhorse on Sept 21, 2017 11:50:27 GMT
I think I'd try the ice cube trick first of all. It's non-destructive, and if cooling the float makes it resume cooling that would pretty much prove it was a temperature differential (condenser colder than the float) causing it.
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Post by jnorris90 on Sept 21, 2017 11:51:26 GMT
Oh no!! Sounds like the unloader is getting stuck to me! Might be a reoccurring oil plug, due to the fact that the unloader works off of oil pressure. Have you tried heating the evaporator to see if that helps??
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Post by birkie on Sept 21, 2017 12:36:43 GMT
Well, it might also be a good idea to apply some heat to the evaporator to confirm whether it's vacuum as presumed (in which case the heat will do nothing), or if it has liquid refrigerant in it (in which case, you may hear some boiling)
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Post by ckfan on Sept 21, 2017 14:10:08 GMT
Same thing my CK2 does. Replace it with a DR2. Problem solved. That's not an incorrect answer...
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Post by ckfan on Sept 21, 2017 14:17:04 GMT
Well, it might also be a good idea to apply some heat to the evaporator to confirm whether it's vacuum as presumed (in which case the heat will do nothing), or if it has liquid refrigerant in it (in which case, you may hear some boiling) I think it is in a vacuum while it is occurring. The manual states that the compressor while in a vacuum won't pick up a full oil charge and will sound very tinny. Just like it does. I bet the low side of the system is in a deep vacuum by the time I notice it. If you put your hand on the evaporator it won't boil at all. The evaporator will still be slightly cool, enough to sweat, but no boiling can be heard. Let it sit for a few hours and you will be greeted with a boiling evaporator with no heat applied and the unit off. Turn it back on and everything is right with the world...until it goes tits up again. These are all good ideas though. I just have no idea what is the real cause. I really don't want to crack that purge screw either. Yikes! Time for a 124 conversion.
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Post by birkie on Sept 21, 2017 14:21:58 GMT
Do try the ice on the float trick when it happens again, though. That'll help test the idea that the evap is empty and all the refrigerant is in the condenser, unable to make it up to the float for some reason.
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Post by ckfan on Sept 21, 2017 15:40:33 GMT
Do try the ice on the float trick when it happens again, though. That'll help test the idea that the evap is empty and all the refrigerant is in the condenser, unable to make it up to the float for some reason. I remember reading somewhere that the first meter miser Frigidaire units had issues with the winnings becoming so hot that they boiled minute amounts of water out of the cotton insulation. That in turn made the water freeze and build up at the restriction. That in turn caused refrigeration to stop. A hot rag on the restrictor would usually solve the problem. I wonder if something similar is going on here?
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Post by birkie on Sept 21, 2017 16:28:19 GMT
I remember reading somewhere that the first meter miser Frigidaire units had issues with the winnings becoming so hot that they boiled minute amounts of water out of the cotton insulation. That in turn made the water freeze and build up at the restriction. That in turn caused refrigeration to stop. A hot rag on the restrictor would usually solve the problem. I wonder if something similar is going on here? I think that was what blackhorse was saying... but it's an SO2 system. That much water would be havoc. It would quickly turn into acids and carbonaceous gunk, rather than remain as water and ice.
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Post by blackhorse on Sept 21, 2017 17:30:22 GMT
Do try the ice on the float trick when it happens again, though. That'll help test the idea that the evap is empty and all the refrigerant is in the condenser, unable to make it up to the float for some reason. I strongly agree. If that's the case then consider why. Cool draft? I've seen modern refrigerators crap out because they are too close to the air conditioning register. Wide swings in ambient in the garage? Maybe it's just "normal" for flat tops to not like wide temperature swings. I only used mine indoors. If so that's significant enough that you should re-title this thread so people from now on can know this. Has it been modified from factory? Mainly, has the mounting or insulation around the float been altered? Or where the suction line is/was soldered to the float chamber has come loose?
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