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Post by kyle on Feb 11, 2018 17:40:53 GMT
ck fan I found an old diagram of yours monitortop.freeforums.net/thread/723/re-wired-ck Feb 22, 2016 at 1:33pm based on your handwritten diagram I think I am wired correctly the only question I have is where does the line hot number 4 connect on the ro81
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Post by ckfan on Feb 11, 2018 18:00:19 GMT
Kyle, After thinking about your wiring issue I decided to just draw another diagram for a flat top rewire with a new relay. Please keep in mind that I am no artist at all. If my diagram is a little hard to follow please let me know what you have a question about. Also, a few things to keep in mind. When looking at the compressor terminals, in order to determine which is start, run, and common keep this in mind. The resistance measurement from these terminals goes from highest to lowest Run to Start is the highest Start to Common is in the middle Run to Common is the lowest value. From there you can determine which terminal does what. I'm sure that it isn't mixed up now since you were able to run it for a few hours without it blowing up but you always want to be sure. Look at this diagram and see if it makes sense for you. You basically have to provide power to the new relay through the two wires on one side but it has to be switched through the thermostat. That's where the 3 wire going up to the top of the cabinet comes in. It provides power to the light bulb and also carries current from the compressor through the thermostat switch. ***Please Note! Not all flat tops have an overload device built into the control. The two knob controls do, the one knob controls don't. If you are unsure, please check to make sure that your start relay has a built in overload for protection from overheating the motor. Supco RO81 relays which I mentioned in the diagram DO have protection but some solid state relays and some mechanical relays DO NOT have such protection. There is no penalty for having double protection. You have been warned!*** Attachments:
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Post by blackhorse on Feb 11, 2018 18:12:13 GMT
Keep in mind also that the relay you are replacing contains the overload protector. If your new PTC relay doesn't contain a properly sized overload, the next time the lights flicker you may have a nice big spare parts supply.
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kyle
New Member
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Post by kyle on Feb 11, 2018 18:45:38 GMT
I used your diagram and I was wired all wrong. Now I am wired perfectly and the unit is running, the light works and compressor turns off with the temp control in the unit. Thanks so much I am happy to get the old beast running again. That diagram is perfect.
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kyle
New Member
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Post by kyle on Feb 11, 2018 18:53:43 GMT
if the start and run terminals are reversed what happens? you said blows up?
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Post by blackhorse on Feb 11, 2018 19:09:32 GMT
if the start and run terminals are reversed what happens? you said blows up? The start winding generally burns out, it was never intended for continuous use. That said, the scotch-yoke compressors on CK's and flat-tops are probably the most robust compressors ever made. Having come off the "personality issues" with DR's and CA's, G.E. went all-out no-hold-barred with the next generation. So I would not be greatly surprised if someone told me they ran one on the start winding for an extended length of time and got away with it. The motor windings on those are oil-cooled. Someone told me, years ago, that during the war you couldn't get parts or replacements due to wartime military production taking over all manufacturing. The control on their MT went bad, but they couldn't get anything unless they were completely without refrigeration. So they took the unit off the cabinet, turned it upside down and connected it to 220v, and left it run overnight. The evaporator froze over about an inch thick but otherwise no problem. Then they took it up a flight of stairs and dropped it upside down over the railing. And then plugged it in. That finally killed it, so they could get a new refrigerator under the rationing plan. I'm not saying this is so, I'm saying this is the story an old guy related when he saw my MT collection back in the '70's. But still.......
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Post by ckfan on Feb 11, 2018 19:11:43 GMT
if the start and run terminals are reversed what happens? you said blows up? I'm very glad I was able to help you get it running. If you reverse the terminals you would eventually burn out the compressor motor. I honestly don't know how well it would run in this state because I've never tried it for fear of burning up a very valuable compressor. The start winding is only meant to be energized for a very short period of time and can't stay in the circuit more than a second or so.
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Post by ckfan on Feb 11, 2018 19:13:14 GMT
if the start and run terminals are reversed what happens? you said blows up? The start winding generally burns out, it was never intended for continuous use. That said, the scotch-yoke compressors on CK's and flat-tops are probably the most robust compressors ever made. Having come off the "personality issues" with DR's and CA's, G.E. went all-out no-hold-barred with the next generation. So I would not be greatly surprised if someone told me they ran one on the start winding for an extended length of time and got away with it. The motor windings on those are oil-cooled. Someone told me, years ago, that during the war you couldn't get parts or replacements due to wartime military production taking over all manufacturing. The control on their MT went bad, but they couldn't get anything unless they were completely without refrigeration. So they took the unit off the cabinet, turned it upside down and connected it to 220v, and left it run overnight. The evaporator froze over about an inch thick but otherwise no problem. Then they took it up a flight of stairs and dropped it upside down over the railing. And then plugged it in. That finally killed it, so they could get a new refrigerator under the rationing plan. I'm not saying this is so, I'm saying this is the story an old guy related when he saw my MT collection back in the '70's. But still....... Wow, that's one way to get your way...
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Post by blackhorse on Feb 11, 2018 19:43:55 GMT
I've run that story through my mind several times over the years.
Would the evaporator frost running upside down?
Obviously the float valve would be wide open. Is the orifice small enough to get at least some condensing pressure in the condenser?
I can see there being enough gas blowing through to blow liquid refrigerant uphill into the evaporator.
The oil pickup wouldn't pick up enough oil pressure to close the unloader. Would condenser pressure be low enough with the float open to get at least some gas flow with the unloader open?
I can see the top of the upside down dome full of oil, and the mechanism splashing in the oil. Is this enough to maintain at least some compression?
And of course I have no reference point for even what model we might be talking about.
Plausible? Total crap? I've never been inclined to try it......
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Post by ckfan on Feb 11, 2018 20:34:43 GMT
I've run that story through my mind several times over the years. Would the evaporator frost running upside down? Obviously the float valve would be wide open. Is the orifice small enough to get at least some condensing pressure in the condenser? I can see there being enough gas blowing through to blow liquid refrigerant uphill into the evaporator. The oil pickup wouldn't pick up enough oil pressure to close the unloader. Would condenser pressure be low enough with the float open to get at least some gas flow with the unloader open? I can see the top of the upside down dome full of oil, and the mechanism splashing in the oil. Is this enough to maintain at least some compression? And of course I have no reference point for even what model we might be talking about. Plausible? Total crap? I've never been inclined to try it...... All of the stuff you pointed out right there is enough for me to call it BS. However, I'm not willing to try it on a poor unit!
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kyle
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by kyle on Feb 12, 2018 0:58:50 GMT
Thanks so much for the help guys. Next step is replacing the door gaskets and looking for another shelf for the inside, so if you come across a shelf let me know. Thanks
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Post by blackhorse on Feb 12, 2018 17:19:24 GMT
Plausible? Total crap? I've never been inclined to try it...... All of the stuff you pointed out right there is enough for me to call it BS. However, I'm not willing to try it on a poor unit! Neither am I. And it would have to be a CK if it was plausible at all; the first thing that would happen with a DR or CA upside-down is the oil would flood out of the dome into the condenser and clog everything downstream.
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Post by elec573 on Feb 13, 2018 2:31:36 GMT
Kyle did you look in the supplies section? As far as racks measurements would be a good idea. I would keep an eye on craglist and eBay all though I’ve had better luck on craglist. Have seen flat tops in north east Ohio where I live on both sites for sale.
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kyle
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by kyle on Feb 13, 2018 3:15:23 GMT
I put a post on there with measurements and pictures. thanks
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