marko
7 Cubic Foot
Posts: 141
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Post by marko on Nov 1, 2021 23:48:47 GMT
Wow,that's really neat! Is that a Packard? Packard boasted about having the first cars with air conditioning! I never saw anything like that before!! Actually, it was a Cadillac. Here is a quote from an article by Mohinder S. Bhatti, Ph.D.Member ASHRAE:
In 1930, C&C Kelvinator outfitted a customized Cadillac owned by John Hamman Jr. of Houston, Texas with a 0.5 hp(0.37 kW) Kelvinator refrigeration unit powered by a 1.5 hp(1.1 kW) gasoline engine. Two flues on either side of the frontseat took the air down to a fan, which circulated cool air through-out the passenger compartment
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Post by jake on Nov 2, 2021 1:27:20 GMT
That's really something! Thank you for sharing that!!
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marko
7 Cubic Foot
Posts: 141
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Post by marko on Nov 7, 2021 13:29:15 GMT
Okay folks, I cleared the previous project off my bench. Now the real inspection, cleaning, and repairs to the Kelvinator can begin. First, the compressor.
The suction service valve block surface on the pump casting is damaged. I will braze and finish this area.
Next, there is substantial wear on the reeds. Here is the suction reed. Notice the circular wear on the reed is not entirely concentric because the reed locating pin holes are of different size. I believe this is for assembly tolerance at the factory.
The reed lightly polished on the worn area. This is not suited for service.
Here is the discharge reed. similar to the suction reed, wear and pitting render this valve not suited for service.
The good news is that the other side of both reeds can be lapped to provide a new surface.
A little bit of SO2 bubbling out of a discharge reed spring stud hole. The valve seat looks as if it will lap in with the reed plate surface.
The suction valve seat should lap in, as well.
The mechanical seal seat and ring look poor, I am not discarding these, just in case my new seal plan does not work.
Here is the old seal retainer and the new seal plate. This looks promising. The only flaw in the plan is that the crankshaft snout is 5/8" and the new seal is for a 7/8" shaft. My plan is to fit a 1" diameter bushing to the crank snout to set the seal height and another bushing 7/8" to the snout, with locktite sleeve juice, for the seal to ride with. This is for a "modern" Tecumseh or York automotive A/C compressor. The original seal was stationary with a rotating seat. The new seal will be rotating, with a stationary seat plate. Kelvinator merged with Nash Motors, and Nash Motors was subsequently bought out by Hudson Motors, which was bought out by American Motors. Nash was one of
the first car companies to offer factory air. Although I have no proof, I believe that it is very possible that the compressor design which eventually wound up on tens of millions of automobiles had Kelvinator heritage.
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 8, 2021 13:50:44 GMT
Okay folks, I cleared the previous project off my bench. Now the real inspection, cleaning, and repairs to the Kelvinator can begin. First, the compressor.
The suction service valve block surface on the pump casting is damaged. I will braze and finish this area.
Next, there is substantial wear on the reeds. Here is the suction reed. Notice the circular wear on the reed is not entirely concentric because the reed locating pin holes are of different size. I believe this is for assembly tolerance at the factory.
The reed lightly polished on the worn area. This is not suited for service.
Here is the discharge reed. similar to the suction reed, wear and pitting render this valve not suited for service.
The good news is that the other side of both reeds can be lapped to provide a new surface.
A little bit of SO2 bubbling out of a discharge reed spring stud hole. The valve seat looks as if it will lap in with the reed plate surface.
The suction valve seat should lap in, as well.
The mechanical seal seat and ring look poor, I am not discarding these, just in case my new seal plan does not work.
Here is the old seal retainer and the new seal plate. This looks promising. The only flaw in the plan is that the crankshaft snout is 5/8" and the new seal is for a 7/8" shaft. My plan is to fit a 1" diameter bushing to the crank snout to set the seal height and another bushing 7/8" to the snout, with locktite sleeve juice, for the seal to ride with. This is for a "modern" Tecumseh or York automotive A/C compressor. The original seal was stationary with a rotating seat. The new seal will be rotating, with a stationary seat plate. Kelvinator merged with Nash Motors, and Nash Motors was subsequently bought out by Hudson Motors, which was bought out by American Motors. Nash was one of
the first car companies to offer factory air. Although I have no proof, I believe that it is very possible that the compressor design which eventually wound up on tens of millions of automobiles had Kelvinator heritage.
That is looking good! It's a shame about the cracked casting where the suction valve attaches. Got to wonder how on earth that happened? Did rust creep in around the bolt and "rust-jacking" forced it apart? The reeds to look a little worn but I've seen them continue to function efficiently with a lot worse wear than that. If you can't make or get new ones, those would likely function well. Interesting about the York-Tecumseh seal being adaptable. As you know Frigidaire and GM are related. I've found that the mid 90's GM A/C compressor shaft seals are adaptable to the older Frigidaire compressors as well, with some machining. Looking forward to seeing this coming together!
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marko
7 Cubic Foot
Posts: 141
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Post by marko on Nov 9, 2021 0:17:21 GMT
It's a shame about the cracked casting where the suction valve attaches. Got to wonder how on earth that happened? Did rust creep in around the bolt and "rust-jacking" forced it apart? I think that an over zealous mechanic over tightened the bolt in that hole trying to stop a leak. I know from first hand experience that old iron like this just is not as strong as more modern iron (it is hard to "wet" when brazing, as well). Also, I draw file all the flat machined gasket surfaces to even them up, and I noticed quite a few bolt holes had been "pulled up" just a bit, not bad, just enough that the file cut around the hole the first few ten thousandths, like a contour map of the surface.
Here is the repair, not perfect, but it will seal to a gasket.
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 9, 2021 3:15:41 GMT
It's a shame about the cracked casting where the suction valve attaches. Got to wonder how on earth that happened? Did rust creep in around the bolt and "rust-jacking" forced it apart? I think that an over zealous mechanic over tightened the bolt in that hole trying to stop a leak. I know from first hand experience that old iron like this just is not as strong as more modern iron (it is hard to "wet" when brazing, as well). Also, I draw file all the flat machined gasket surfaces to even them up, and I noticed quite a few bolt holes had been "pulled up" just a bit, not bad, just enough that the file cut around the hole the first few ten thousandths, like a contour map of the surface.
Here is the repair, not perfect, but it will seal to a gasket.
Beautiful. That will last decades! You're so right about mechanics and overtightening things..... they often don't have sense enough to simply replace the gasket! Thanks for the update.
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marko
7 Cubic Foot
Posts: 141
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Post by marko on Nov 13, 2021 16:07:07 GMT
I spent the morning making gaskets. Since I dont have fancy printers and cutters, I did it the old fashioned way, with scissors, razor knife, and hole punches.
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 13, 2021 17:12:45 GMT
I spent the morning making gaskets. Since I dont have fancy printers and cutters, I did it the old fashioned way, with scissors, razor knife, and hole punches. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button>
That's looking great!
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marko
7 Cubic Foot
Posts: 141
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Post by marko on Nov 13, 2021 21:23:03 GMT
Thanks Dave. I just dry fit the crank in the bearings and did a rough estimate of the running height of the Tecumseh seal. The original measurement from the main journal to the top of the stuffing box is 1.250 including gaskets. The Tecumseh seal is 0.525 free length, so at 0.500 running height, I need a 0.750 spacer. Easy peezy
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marko
7 Cubic Foot
Posts: 141
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Post by marko on Nov 14, 2021 21:03:59 GMT
I ordered some stuff from McMaster-Carr; it should be here Tuesday. I spent Yesterday afternoon and today cleaning, repairing, and painting the compressor. I used a piece of polished granite and some 600 wet or dry sand paper, then finished with 1500 grit to "lap" the reed plate and reeds. I decided to use the other side of the reeds.
The original hardware, nuts, bolts, king valve stems, packing gland nuts, and seat/male flares, where all rusty, so I polished them and/or wire wheeled, then heated and quenched in burnt motor oil to give them a blackened finish that won't chip off, like paint.
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 15, 2021 14:10:41 GMT
I ordered some stuff from McMaster-Carr; it should be here Tuesday. I spent Yesterday afternoon and today cleaning, repairing, and painting the compressor. I used a piece of polished granite and some 600 wet or dry sand paper, then finished with 1500 grit to "lap" the reed plate and reeds. I decided to use the other side of the reeds The original hardware, nuts, bolts, king valve stems, packing gland nuts, and seat/male flares, where all rusty, so I polished them and/or wire wheeled, then heated and quenched in burnt motor oil to give them a blackened finish that won't chip off, like paint.
That valve plate and reeds look very good. That should work like new!
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marko
7 Cubic Foot
Posts: 141
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Post by marko on Nov 21, 2021 18:02:18 GMT
I got some more done to the Kelvinator yesterday and today.
This stuff is Nylog Blue. It is a synthetic lubricant made for POE, PAG, PVE, AB, and other synthetic compressor oils. It is thick, almost exactly like STP motor oil treatment. It is a multi-purpose product, assembly lube, gasket dope, flare and thread sealer. This is the first time that I have used it, and I must say, I'm impressed. They also make Nylog Red for mineral oil, although the blue is supposed to be okay with mineral oil.
In this photo, I have applied a bit of Nylog to the crank journals.
I put copper washers on all of the compressor sealing bolts.
This is the modified seal system going together. First, a pre-calculated 0.050" set of shims.
Now, the spacer block for the seal to ride with.
This is the mechanical seal installed on the shaft adapter bushing.
This looks excessive, but the gasket is not there.
Time to pick the gasket, pink or blue? Blue! Blue! I pick blue! Not pink!
The holes in the seal plate needed to be enlarged and drilling them left a burr. A copper tubing reamer took care of that.
Repacking the king valves. Very few men at the refrigeration supply house know what this is, and none have it. I bought some soft teflon packing at the big box home store plumbing section.
The assembly mechanic got a little "heavy handed" here
Here is the old seal cover for comparison to the new one. Not a bad match, aye?
Pressure testing at 100 psig N2. Had small leakage.
The main leaks were in the stuffing box gasket, the gasket itself. This is the original, of course the one I made does not have the elongated slots in it.
The secret to fixing the gasket seepage, an old low pressure machine trick. Pull the machine down to 1000 or so microns and paint the seams. It is stoddard solvent with fish oil in it (I think),
Various angle shots of the compressor.
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 21, 2021 18:54:51 GMT
I got some more done to the Kelvinator yesterday and today. This stuff is Nylog Blue. It is a synthetic lubricant made for POE, PAG, PVE, AB, and other synthetic compressor oils. It is thick, almost exactly like STP motor oil treatment. It is a multi-purpose product, assembly lube, gasket dope, flare and thread sealer. This is the first time that I have used it, and I must say, I'm impressed. They also make Nylog Red for mineral oil, although the blue is supposed to be okay with mineral oil. In this photo, I have applied a bit of Nylog to the crank journals.
I put copper washers on all of the compressor sealing bolts.
This is the modified seal system going together. First, a pre-calculated 0.050" set of shims.
Now, the spacer block for the seal to ride with. This is the mechanical seal installed on the shaft adapter bushing.
This looks excessive, but the gasket is not there.
Time to pick the gasket, pink or blue? Blue! Blue! I pick blue! Not pink!
The holes in the seal plate needed to be enlarged and drilling them left a burr. A copper tubing reamer took care of that.
Repacking the king valves. Very few men at the refrigeration supply house know what this is, and none have it. I bought some soft teflon packing at the big box home store plumbing section.
The assembly mechanic got a little "heavy handed" here Here is the old seal cover for comparison to the new one. Not a bad match, aye?
Pressure testing at 100 psig N2. Had small leakage.
The main leaks were in the stuffing box gasket, the gasket itself. This is the original, of course the one I made does not have the elongated slots in it. The secret to fixing the gasket seepage, an old low pressure machine trick. Pull the machine down to 1000 or so microns and paint the seams. It is stoddard solvent with fish oil in it (I think),
Various angle shots of the compressor.
That looks amazing! Very good job. I have been using a different approach on the gaskets, but will be interested to hear how well your stuffing box gasket seals up. That's a sensitive area for sure. Again I'm very interested in how the mechanical seal works. This is a modification I may end up using in the future. Thanks for keeping us updated on the progress.
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marko
7 Cubic Foot
Posts: 141
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Post by marko on Nov 21, 2021 21:58:31 GMT
That looks amazing! Very good job. I have been using a different approach on the gaskets, but will be interested to hear how well your stuffing box gasket seals up. That's a sensitive area for sure. Again I'm very interested in how the mechanical seal works. This is a modification I may end up using in the future. Thanks for keeping us updated on the progress. Thank you Sir. I bragged on the Nylog gasket dope, but having never used it before, I can say with some confidence, had I simply applied the goo to the entire gasket, edges and all, the leak would not have occurred. Also, the Felpro blue paper stock was not a good choice, but the good stuff
costs entirely too much money. I can pull 160 microns on the compressor now, but it only holds to below 2000 microns in several hours. After the stoddard solvent/fish oil stuff dries, I will do another N2 sweep, evacuate, and pressure test. Fingers crossed. Actually, I believe that it is good. The vapor pressure of the assembly goo, the stoddard solvent, and any leakage past the packing glands would explain the loss of vacuum. Stay tuned..... ;-)
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 21, 2021 22:53:42 GMT
That looks amazing! Very good job. I have been using a different approach on the gaskets, but will be interested to hear how well your stuffing box gasket seals up. That's a sensitive area for sure. Again I'm very interested in how the mechanical seal works. This is a modification I may end up using in the future. Thanks for keeping us updated on the progress. Thank you Sir. I bragged on the Nylog gasket dope, but having never used it before, I can say with some confidence, had I simply applied the goo to the entire gasket, edges and all, the leak would not have occurred. Also, the Felpro blue paper stock was not a good choice, but the good stuff
costs entirely too much money. I can pull 160 microns on the compressor now, but it only holds to below 2000 microns in several hours. After the stoddard solvent/fish oil stuff dries, I will do another N2 sweep, evacuate, and pressure test. Fingers crossed. Actually, I believe that it is good. The vapor pressure of the assembly goo, the stoddard solvent, and any leakage past the packing glands would explain the loss of vacuum. Stay tuned..... ;-)
I'm surprised at the gasket cost. Did you look for Lamons L441 sheet? It's very inexpensive at the local hose and gasket shop. Had great luck with it for about 3 years on these compressors. I had to look up "stoddard solvent" which appears to be a hydrocarbon blend. That will likely have quite a vapor pressure and is likely why you're losing vacuum. Once that evaporates, it will likely not lose vacuum. However, don't forget that mechanical seals need a running-in period to burnish the faces. You might want to open the valves with the lines looped; and run the compressor for about an hour then try another evacuation.
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