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Post by Travis on Jul 28, 2018 3:29:15 GMT
I don’t know about that LED bulb in a belt drive Frigidaire. 😉
Very nice. Now to find me a nice one.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 28, 2018 3:30:07 GMT
Wow, it really is amazing how fast you move once you get started on a project! I really like the wood helicoil. Very cool. I’ll have to use that technique on a new toy that I just got from Travis. A 60s tube powered Fisher console that has a lid with bad screw holes. Only trouble is that the thing is made out of damn particle board! I guess this was when the cheapening started.
Thanks! I am one of those people who really doesn't like to have unfinished projects sitting around. It's just better to get 'em done!
I love the old console TV's! The particle board does suck, and I bet the dowel trick will fix it. If I were you, I would use extra super glue so that it soaks into the particle board and reinforces it around the hole. Otherwise the dowel may pull out, with a thin layer of particle board attached!
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 28, 2018 3:39:13 GMT
I don’t know about that LED bulb in a belt drive Frigidaire. 😉 Very nice. Now to find me a nice one. Thanks Travis! When you get one, I will be happy to help! You'll have to make a foray to Alabama in that little red pickup!
As for the LED light - it's not a bulb. I wanted a cabinet light but this refrigerator didn't have one from the factory. Not wanting to butcher the cabinet liner and try to hack in a bulb socket, I opted for a flat panel LED which attaches to the inside of the cabinet, above the door. There's a beveled surface which angles back towards the interior of the cabinet. I was able to attach the light there with 2-sided Supermount tape. It is hidden from view but lights up the whole cabinet interior. No holes had to be drilled. All wiring follows the refrigerant tubing.
It was a painful decision for me. The LED light is highly "anachronistic" to the refrigerator... but so is the PTC start relay, Teflon seals at the compressor shaft and evaporator head; Styrofoam insulation, and the HFC refrigerant. But - I guarantee that the cooling unit works at least as well as it did when new. Zero degrees evap temp in a 90 degree room with no door gasket - that's pretty stout, in my opinion!
The cycle times were pretty good as well. The on-time was about a minute or minute and a half. Off-time I didn't measure; but it was 8 or 10 minutes. The only problem with cycle times is the control is sticking and it's inconsistent. Will work on that tomorrow!
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 29, 2018 14:37:20 GMT
So yesterday I took the control apart and refurbished all the parts that make it cycle. I found one place where a bushing was missing. This had intermittently causing the control to get stuck "off." I made a bushing and installed it early yesterday. That solved the sticking problem.
Last night I let the Frigidaire run all night and stabilize. This morning it was cycling "interestingly." I must say this machine has a personality to it.
It will cycle on, run for about 15 seconds, and then off. About 3 minutes later, it will cycle on again for about 15 seconds. Then about 3 minutes later it will cycle on again. I was watching the bellows on the control. It started to move down as soon as the compressor started. Then there was a "pop-thump" from the evaporator. At that moment the control bellows rose up to the top and the ON cycle was about 3 minutes before it stopped. After that, it has about a 15 minute OFF cycle.
This repeats, with 2 or 3 short cycles between the long cycles. Each long cycle is preceded by a "thump" or "pop" from the evaporator. It sounds like something an old steam radiator would do. I think the refrigerant is getting "superheated" and then suddenly boiling, causing the thumping and sudden pressure rise. Either way, it is definitely running at a small duty cycle.
The short cycles are a 12:1 ratio off:on. The long cycles are about 5:1 ratio off:on.
These times are in the (relatively) cool morning time (in the 80's) after stabilizing all night without the door being opened. I still have a few places that had caulking from the factory, which I still haven't re-caulked yet.
The control is set on 3, and the thermometer in the cabinet is showing about 32°F.
I just can't tell you how delighted I am with the way this is working. It's just so different yet very effective. I know it will be higher maintenance than a hermetic unit, but it's worth it to me, to have a running example of one of these.
EDIT: Awe no. Now I hate this fridge. The bottled water from it gave me a brain freeze 'cause it's too cold! Ouch.
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Post by birkie on Jul 29, 2018 14:59:53 GMT
Just a thought - could those short cycles be happening when the low-side float valve is still closed, so the 15 seconds of runtime is really just the time it takes to evacuate the suction line and bellows (and the 1 minute off time is really just gas leaking back into the same)? The pop/thump might be the float valve opening for real.
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Post by birkie on Jul 29, 2018 15:03:14 GMT
No, wait - that might be silly. The valve itself is on the liquid side, the suction line is open to the evap always, right?
Sorry - on my cell phone making breakfast and thinking/typing at the same time. My brain is not good at doing that.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 29, 2018 15:24:08 GMT
Just a thought - could those short cycles be happening when the low-side float valve is still closed, so the 15 seconds of runtime is really just the time it takes to evacuate the suction line and bellows (and the 1 minute off time is really just gas leaking back into the same)? The pop/thump might be the float valve opening for real. No, wait - that might be silly. The valve itself is on the liquid side, the suction line is open to the evap always, right? Sorry - on my cell phone making breakfast and thinking/typing at the same time. My brain is not good at doing that.
Hi Aaron. I think it's been proven that nobody can actually multitask in the same sense of a computer OS. We do, however, switch between tasks, interleaving the steps of one task with the steps of another. Then a little confusion happens and we end up frying an egg in alkylbenzene oil instead of Mazola.
You're right, the float is metering liquid from the receiver to the evaporator, and the suction line is one continuous circuit, from the evaporator header, bellows, and compressor crankcase. There are no valves in it other than the manually operated service valves.
Due to the sight glass, I can see some flow from the receiver to the float valve which starts about 5 seconds after the compressor starts up each time. I guess that would be the float opening.
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Post by elec573 on Jul 31, 2018 5:53:06 GMT
Very nice work! I think we’re all drooling a little bit, we’ll maybe Travis a little more. But you do make it look easy but I think most of us know better. Thanks for posting.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jul 31, 2018 12:59:09 GMT
Very nice work! I think we’re all drooling a little bit, we’ll maybe Travis a little more. But you do make it look easy but I think most of us know better. Thanks for posting. Thank you sir! Travis has been watching it with great interest I'm sure! He had the rebuildable compressor skid in his stash, and provided it to me. I plan to return the favor by making another trip to his place again; and working with him to get one of his belt drive fridges up and running!
In all honesty - this has been a very time-consuming project. It was, however, not "difficult" by any means. You got to remember, these were designed in the 1920's and produced with basic technology. It was all nuts and bolts and tubing and stuff. Nothing was physically difficult. It was just a brain teaser to find all the info and figure out the best way to put it together. Time will tell how it does. So far at 4 days running, it's still doing great.
Again, at the risk of sounding like a broken record - I don't want to collect relics, only to be looked at and talked about. I want a living, working, piece of history that not only looks the part - but also sounds and functions like it did back in the day.
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Post by Travis on Jul 31, 2018 17:59:51 GMT
You say that now sir, but your collecting valve is wide open! I'm not one to talk, I have a trip tomorrow to get a tiny Westinghouse and another trip next week for a bakelite Emerson TV and a chinese Stromberg Carlson combo.
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Post by icebox on Aug 1, 2018 19:14:16 GMT
So yesterday I took the control apart and refurbished all the parts that make it cycle. I found one place where a bushing was missing. This had intermittently causing the control to get stuck "off." I made a bushing and installed it early yesterday. That solved the sticking problem.
Last night I let the Frigidaire run all night and stabilize. This morning it was cycling "interestingly." I must say this machine has a personality to it.
It will cycle on, run for about 15 seconds, and then off. About 3 minutes later, it will cycle on again for about 15 seconds. Then about 3 minutes later it will cycle on again. I was watching the bellows on the control. It started to move down as soon as the compressor started. Then there was a "pop-thump" from the evaporator. At that moment the control bellows rose up to the top and the ON cycle was about 3 minutes before it stopped. After that, it has about a 15 minute OFF cycle.
This repeats, with 2 or 3 short cycles between the long cycles. Each long cycle is preceded by a "thump" or "pop" from the evaporator. It sounds like something an old steam radiator would do. I think the refrigerant is getting "superheated" and then suddenly boiling, causing the thumping and sudden pressure rise. Either way, it is definitely running at a small duty cycle.
The short cycles are a 12:1 ratio off:on. The long cycles are about 5:1 ratio off:on.
These times are in the (relatively) cool morning time (in the 80's) after stabilizing all night without the door being opened. I still have a few places that had caulking from the factory, which I still haven't re-caulked yet.
The control is set on 3, and the thermometer in the cabinet is showing about 32°F.
I just can't tell you how delighted I am with the way this is working. It's just so different yet very effective. I know it will be higher maintenance than a hermetic unit, but it's worth it to me, to have a running example of one of these.
EDIT: Awe no. Now I hate this fridge. The bottled water from it gave me a brain freeze 'cause it's too cold! Ouch. Very interesting about the cycle times, and I think you're right about the refrigerant suddenly boiling off. I would liken it to boiling water in a test-tube without anti-bumping granules. It's probably made worse by having a layer of oil on the surface that prevents the surface evaporation. It would be interesting to see if it behaved like this originally - I don't see why not. The only slight worry is the 3 minute off time is close to the PTC reset time, but if it starts OK now I guess it shouldn't get any worse. Great work David, I am so impressed with all your refrigerator restorations!
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Post by turbokinetic on Aug 1, 2018 19:32:09 GMT
You say that now sir, but your collecting valve is wide open! I'm not one to talk, I have a trip tomorrow to get a tiny Westinghouse and another trip next week for a bakelite Emerson TV and a chinese Stromberg Carlson combo. LOL I am afraid I somehow broke the handle off that valve. That makes two of us! Very interesting about the cycle times, and I think you're right about the refrigerant suddenly boiling off. I would liken it to boiling water in a test-tube without anti-bumping granules. It's probably made worse by having a layer of oil on the surface that prevents the surface evaporation. It would be interesting to see if it behaved like this originally - I don't see why not. The only slight worry is the 3 minute off time is close to the PTC reset time, but if it starts OK now I guess it shouldn't get any worse. Great work David, I am so impressed with all your refrigerator restorations!
Thanks! I' glad you've found it impressive and interesting. It's been a very effective conversation piece. That's for sure!
You've got a point about the anti-bumping granules. I wonder if those would help in the evaporator.... A person could put a few inside each of the tubes. The fact that I cleaned the heck out of the inside of the evaporator may have exacerbated this effect by removing any nucleation sites that may have been already in the system.
I have noticed similar noises from the evaporator in my DR; however it doesn't affect the cycle times. The DR uses a temperature-based controller instead of pressure-based.
I've seen it short-cycle the PTC start device one time and I'm not entirely sure I didn't cause this to happen by accidentally bumping the control.
Well, this is day 5 of it's new life and it's still working just fine! Won't be long I'll move it from here to my house.
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Post by icebox on Aug 1, 2018 19:48:34 GMT
You say that now sir, but your collecting valve is wide open! I'm not one to talk, I have a trip tomorrow to get a tiny Westinghouse and another trip next week for a bakelite Emerson TV and a chinese Stromberg Carlson combo. LOL I am afraid I somehow broke the handle off that valve. That makes two of us! Very interesting about the cycle times, and I think you're right about the refrigerant suddenly boiling off. I would liken it to boiling water in a test-tube without anti-bumping granules. It's probably made worse by having a layer of oil on the surface that prevents the surface evaporation. It would be interesting to see if it behaved like this originally - I don't see why not. The only slight worry is the 3 minute off time is close to the PTC reset time, but if it starts OK now I guess it shouldn't get any worse. Great work David, I am so impressed with all your refrigerator restorations!
Thanks! I' glad you've found it impressive and interesting. It's been a very effective conversation piece. That's for sure!
You've got a point about the anti-bumping granules. I wonder if those would help in the evaporator.... A person could put a few inside each of the tubes. The fact that I cleaned the heck out of the inside of the evaporator may have exacerbated this effect by removing any nucleation sites that may have been already in the system.
I have noticed similar noises from the evaporator in my DR; however it doesn't affect the cycle times. The DR uses a temperature-based controller instead of pressure-based.
I've seen it short-cycle the PTC start device one time and I'm not entirely sure I didn't cause this to happen by accidentally bumping the control.
Well, this is day 5 of it's new life and it's still working just fine! Won't be long I'll move it from here to my house.
Maybe you did clean the evaporator too well! One could put granules in the evaporator - but I think I like the idea of it clean. Interesting you hear it in your DR too, but yes of course the temperature control wont short cycle because of this. Maybe it's one of the reasons fridges moved to temperature control instead of pressure control. Day 5 of many I hope, so good to see running once more :-)
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Post by turbokinetic on Aug 1, 2018 19:55:36 GMT
Maybe you did clean the evaporator too well! One could put granules in the evaporator - but I think I like the idea of it clean. Interesting you hear it in your DR too, but yes of course the temperature control wont short cycle because of this. Maybe it's one of the reasons fridges moved to temperature control instead of pressure control. Day 5 of many I hope, so good to see running once more :-) Yep the popping noise it makes is very faint, especially with the door closed. It's just the Nature of the Beast I guess. I wouldn't want to take it all apart just for this; since it's working well.
I've been searching the Internet for any other running examples to compare notes with the owners. I haven't seen another one working; aside from csulaguy's 1928 model (with different model compressor) and a few odd YouTube videos of units with the compressor running but may or may not cooling.
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