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Post by ckfan on Feb 24, 2017 20:03:02 GMT
Hey everyone. I got all the way through the "Report on Domestic Refrigerating Machines". I went back through it and was able to find the section that I saw where GE recommended that OC-2 machines be sold, in limted areas and quantities, to the public. I guess this explains the OC-2 ads that I got from the museum. So fascinating. Now we need to go to Fort Wayne, Cincinnati, or Cleveland and see if there are any OC-2 form H machine floating around! I'm sure one of them has been operating since it was installed in 1925 right? Attachments:
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Post by coldspaces on Feb 24, 2017 22:35:35 GMT
Wow that is so interesting, I haven't found time to read enough of it yet.
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Post by elec573 on Feb 25, 2017 5:33:07 GMT
Very impressive Ray really liked the pictures do you think there is a possibility of getting a copy of the door decal on the I think the ca ? That Stevison is standing by with his watt meater. Also the last picture I have seen before but never that clear didn't relizied there we're knives stuck in the floor along with coins and other things. I'm sure you're video well be top notch very nice work thanks for posting.
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Post by 100yearfridge on Feb 25, 2017 6:17:20 GMT
I haven't had time to do any research, but I did get some pictures on the drive: drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B0leHj0_q8Trdl9fOUdOME8wQWc?usp=sharingI would highly recommend anyone interested in an illustrated history of refrigeration get a copy of "Heat and Cold". I also really enjoyed "More Work For Mother". The three selections from "Household Refrigeration" by H.B. Hull are from three different editions spanning from 1924 to 1933. I know they include a lot of information about the MT which many of you know already, but I think it is special to see literature on the OC-2?, DR and CA, which is kind of rare otherwise. I'll try to do some more poking around in my library to find some more stuff specific to early MT. Sorry about the poor fidelity of my phone pictures. I should look into getting a small flatbed scanner, and maybe I could digitize some of these beautiful books.
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Post by ckfan on Feb 25, 2017 16:11:29 GMT
Very impressive Ray really liked the pictures do you think there is a possibility of getting a copy of the door decal on the I think the ca ? That Stevison is standing by with his watt meater. Also the last picture I have seen before but never that clear didn't relizied there we're knives stuck in the floor along with coins and other things. I'm sure you're video well be top notch very nice work thanks for posting. That CA sticker has been illusive to say the least. I'm always looking for good pictures of other door stickers but have yet to find a good photo of one. Once I do I will surely start the process of getting a reproduction made.
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Post by ckfan on Feb 25, 2017 16:23:25 GMT
I haven't had time to do any research, but I did get some pictures on the drive: drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B0leHj0_q8Trdl9fOUdOME8wQWc?usp=sharingI would highly recommend anyone interested in an illustrated history of refrigeration get a copy of "Heat and Cold". I also really enjoyed "More Work For Mother". The three selections from "Household Refrigeration" by H.B. Hull are from three different editions spanning from 1924 to 1933. I know they include a lot of information about the MT which many of you know already, but I think it is special to see literature on the OC-2?, DR and CA, which is kind of rare otherwise. I'll try to do some more poking around in my library to find some more stuff specific to early MT. Sorry about the poor fidelity of my phone pictures. I should look into getting a small flatbed scanner, and maybe I could digitize some of these beautiful books. The quality of your phone pictures is far superior to what mine will do. I can surely use these photos. Thank you so much! The diagram of the audiffren will be very helpful. Heck, all of these pictures are. I especially like that you were able to find information on the "junior" model. Now I know what it is called! So very interesting. I'll have to see if I can find those other books and browse through them for info.
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Post by 100yearfridge on Feb 25, 2017 17:09:58 GMT
Ray, if you want some good pictures to use in the video, I will get good copies of these and more. I also have a stack of trade journals from the 1910s and 1920s I have hardly touched. Maybe I can find an article on the OC-2 or DR, or at least advertisements. I know I have some more stuff on the Audiffren too.
BTW, just about to hit 500 forum members, an arbitrary but psychologically satisfying number!
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Post by ckfan on Feb 25, 2017 18:44:13 GMT
Honestly these pictures are good enough quality for me to use. If you really want to get better ones I won't stop you of course I was impressed by what you phone can do. I can easily read all of the text, even the tiny text on the audiffren diagram. I bet the trade journals would at least mention the audiffren since it was so different at the time. Again, I really appreciate all of your help. This video is going to take ages to properly produce but it will be worth the wait. And yes, I too noticed that we are near 500 members. Kind of a neat thought.
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Post by 100yearfridge on Feb 25, 2017 19:47:10 GMT
I found several diagrams and text on the Audiffren in other books. I also found some more discussion of the DR and The "General Electric Refrigerating Machine". They never refer to it as the OC-2, but I think it is about the same time period. There is some description of the unloader, which I believe you were interested in. I would like to find some sales information specific to GE, but I think most of it is about refrigerator sales generally. Some of the books list refrigerator sales by year in the united states. I could provide some of that which could add to some of the zest of how GE was so far ahead of their time and their major contribution. I took a gander through some of the trade journals that would be best to find GE advertisements. Unfortunately the pages that the table of contents refer to are missing. I'm going to contact Bernard Nagengast to see of he has anything that would be pertinent.
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Post by 100yearfridge on Feb 25, 2017 22:48:41 GMT
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Post by ckfan on Feb 25, 2017 22:58:25 GMT
Nice. I bet the "general electric refrigerating machine" is the oc2. Very cool. Heck, at this rate I should let you talk for a portion of the video! I'm very interested to see if Mr Nagengast has anything to say.
The patent drawings for the audiffren will come in real handy, thank you.
I'll have to take a look at the video and other early GE patents when I get a chance. I'm also glad that you are planning on using a flooded evaporator. I honestly don't know the technical difference of why a flooded evaporator would be better for a brine system. In my mind it would simply be because there is always "extra" liquid refrigerant sitting around to evaporate and do some useful work. I know for a fact that when I defrost any of my early GE fridges that it takes a lot of heat to melt the frost and finally get the evaporator warm. There is just so much refrigerant in there boiling off for so long.
Anywho, thanks again. This stuff is gold.
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Post by ckfan on Feb 25, 2017 23:06:28 GMT
Edit, wow! I didn't realize you were the one taking the video! Now I have a video to incorporate into my video, with your permission of course, so that people can see how an audiffren work. So very cool. I would imagine that the date of 1926 is correct since this is one of the later ones designed to work in mid air instead of in brine tanks. The copper disc covered tubes look similar to the oc2 condenser that I've seen in the drawings. Like I said, gold.
Also, the second set of patent drawings seems to look like one of the very first versions of the oc2 that was designed to be water cooled. At least that is what it looks like to me. Keep this stuff coming! You are giving all of us great historical material.
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Post by 100yearfridge on Feb 26, 2017 0:18:15 GMT
Ha. Finally some people that give a damn about this stuff. I have been collecting this kind of stuff for years now. Trying to shoehorn it into conversations isn't the easiest!
On the note about the flooded evaporator- that's it in a nut shell. The way I see it, you need more refrigerant in the evaporator at the beginning of the cycle, and somewhat less at the end. That's pretty much the case for any and all refrigerators, ACs, Heat Pumps, etc., but in the case of the brine tanks there's a bunch of liquid brine at the beginning that gives up heat readily to the evap, and as things freeze up the frozen brine doesn't conduct the heat in as well so the refrigerant doesn't vaporize as easily, and excessive refrigerant needs to be held so it doesn't flood back to the compressor.
I shot Bern a message to see if he can offer anything to the project. I'm always looking for more documents, and I asked specifically about early GE refrigerator development. Know where the OC-2 was released, how many were built, service issues, cost, and things like that would be really interesting.
I don't want to hijack your project, I just want to help in any way I can. With this book collection and an obsession with refrigerators, I hope to put together a museum someday to preserve and maybe instill some appreciation by some people so this world changing work isn't forgotten. I never really considered doing a video (I'm helpless in the digital realm), but seeing what you propose makes me want to help. There aren't any good documentaries or short videos on this history, and the medium is perfect for bringing about some awareness to well built refrigerators.
I would certainly like to collaborate with you on the project, if you don't mind. Do you think you are going to have enough to do the development of the DR? I figure you started this because you are obviously very interested in the topic and you want to share that interest. I think the videos you've made so far are quite good, and with your enthusiasm you could show how GE set the standard for rugged, reliable, and affordable refrigerators. The diversity and beauty of pre WWII Monitor Tops should be appreciable by anyone if they can visually see and understand how the US went from essentially no domestic refrigerators to something like 80% saturation in around 20 years. Those sales figures are powerful, and if we could find some reliable information of how many of those are GE, I think it would help demonstrate their impact.
Then there is the modular design, iconic shapes, and low cost. Pictures have impact. There are enough members on this forum to show off quick examples of the wide range of shapes, and reinforce the durability of these machines because so many of them ran without help, and others have been lovingly restored by people whom have become bewitched by their simple appearance that through shear utility does not hide what it is.
Of course there are the assembly line photos, and quick clips of the promotional videos.
And to drive the point of their revolutionary nature, the difficulty in convincing a weary public of the need for refrigeration, and the safety of the machine. There's the issue of powering them in homes without reliable electrical infrastructure, and making them affordable. There's the story of the government programs to sell them on payment programs though the utility companies.
Anyway, my ramble is turning into a much larger project maybe you'd be interested in doing in the future! I would have some fun writing out some of this stuff for you to look at.
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Post by coldspaces on Feb 26, 2017 1:54:39 GMT
Great links 100yearfridge! Love that video!
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Post by cablehack on Feb 26, 2017 22:39:58 GMT
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