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Post by cablehack on Jul 4, 2016 23:27:36 GMT
230W after an hours run time isn't right. That, and a just cool enough to be sweaty evaporator makes me think of a high side blockage. Your next piece of information makes me think that the high side blockage is just NCG's forcing the float valve shut. What happens is if the fridge has been off for a while, the NCG's disperse throughout the system. When the fridge is started again some time later, it takes a little while for the NCG's to come back to the float chamber (this is the place where they naturally accumulate with the compressor running). The effect is that it looks good to start with, but then as the float chamber fills with NCG's the float is forced down, etc. So, it does sound like another purge is the next step.
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Post by ckfan on Jul 5, 2016 15:32:55 GMT
Cablehack,
You were spot on. I placed some hot pans of water in the evaporator yesterday and let it heat up again. The evaporator was barely getting cool. The compressor was very noisy and the watts went as high as 250. I started bleeding again being very careful to be sure and notice the smell of methyl formate. I never did smell it...even after 3 hours of bleeding! That's right, I was still bleeding after 3 hours. The watts are now at around 150-135. The run time is about 5 minutes on, 12 minutes off. It sounds much healthier too. I ended up running out of time (fireworks!). But I never could get the smell of methyl formate or the bottom of the condenser to match the top for temperature. The closest I got was a 13 degree difference between the top and bottom.
It is very frosty now. And the cabinet temp on setting 4 is a healthy 34 degrees. I'm just wondering if I should try to bleed some more or not. It is looking very promising.
You could tell at first that the float valve was being held down. It would make loud clunks and spurts as I bled the gasses out.
Let me know if you think I should give it another go. Thanks to everyone as always!
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Post by ckfan on Jul 6, 2016 14:57:27 GMT
Quick update on the CA. It is running great as far as I can tell. The frost line has stabilized. The bottom and sides of the evaporator are coated in a thick layer of frost. The left header is (almost) completely covered. The right header is covered at the back and it tapers off to about halfway up the header near the front. The unit sounds much healthier. No rattling that I can hear. I also am not hearing the float valve anymore. It is making a gurgling sound when off. You will have a few seconds of silence and then bloop, wait a few seconds and then another bloop. Kind of neat to hear it make odd noises even when off. The dome is always slightly warm. The condenser gets warm on top but is room temperature on the bottom. The run times have also settled in. About 4 minutes on, 12 minutes off. The temperature stays around 34-35 degrees if you don't open the door. Overall I am very happy and hopeful that this unit will not require major surgery. I am just considering whether or not I should do another bleed again.
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Post by ChrisJ on Jul 6, 2016 15:24:45 GMT
Don't mess with the CA "bloop bloop" Yes, mine sounds like a fountain while running, noticeable after maybe 10-15 seconds of running and when off you hear an occasional bloop or gurgle sound. If the frost line looks good, and it runs good I'd personally leave it alone for now. Roll that beautiful evaporator footage! We need some frosty pics.
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Post by ckfan on Jul 6, 2016 17:34:11 GMT
Here you go Chris! I still need to take a picture of the unit itself. It looks good. Its far from perfect but it has a good amount of "patina" on it. You can tell that it has always been taken good care of. I like the fact that the cabinet is painted and yet is still in decent shape. The first picture was taken the other day while I was bleeding gasses. The second picture is of a good frosty evaporator. It was taken while I was bleeding the gasses, with the door wide open and pans of (then cold) hot water inside. It has since stabilized and looks slightly better. This little unit is really odd when compared to the others that I have but that is what makes it neat in my book. I like the odd noises that it makes. To view the photos in this post, please follow this link: drive.google.com/open?id=0B8_jm7K-ahMaR0N5STBQYlNTLW8
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Post by cablehack on Jul 7, 2016 6:32:31 GMT
It sounds very promising. The cycling times are fine, and the frost pattern sounds OK too. At this point I would just let it run for a few days and see how it settles down. For now, it's probably best not to purge unless it shows signs of needing it. As a matter of fact, I purged my CA-1 a couple of days ago - the frost level had fallen to below the header tank, the off times were only 10 mins, and the rattle wasn't going away. The CA is another world away from other kinds of refrigerator, but after a while you will become used to its strange habits.
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Post by ckfan on Jul 7, 2016 13:31:26 GMT
Thank you cablehack,
I am keeping the unit on and am watching it every day. The temperature is rock solid. It sounds good too. No rattle that I can hear at all. I really am getting enamored to this machine since it is just so quirky. When it is working right though it seems to be very reasonable. I'm just glad that the frost lines look good and that everything else seems ok.
Oh, and for the record, the frost on the right header is a little higher towards the front now. It is about halfway up the tank. So that is good. I guess I didn't loose any refrigerant during the purge like I had feared.
I'm a member of the CA club now! I know what you guys mean when you state that these things are just neat. They are.
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Post by ChrisJ on Jul 7, 2016 14:00:38 GMT
Thank you cablehack, I am keeping the unit on and am watching it every day. The temperature is rock solid. It sounds good too. No rattle that I can hear at all. I really am getting enamored to this machine since it is just so quirky. When it is working right though it seems to be very reasonable. I'm just glad that the frost lines look good and that everything else seems ok. Oh, and for the record, the frost on the right header is a little higher towards the front now. It is about halfway up the tank. So that is good. I guess I didn't loose any refrigerant during the purge like I had feared. I'm a member of the CA club now! I know what you guys mean when you state that these things are just neat. They are. Sadly, Travis doesn't seem to understand why CAs are such interesting, and amazing machines. I'm glad you've come around.
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Post by ckfan on Jul 7, 2016 15:58:34 GMT
I'm not speaking for Travis but having talked to him quite a bit I can confidently say that he does indeed like the CA machines. In fact, he likes all old fridges, and of course monitor tops come first. With such a vast selection to choose from though it makes sense why he cares more about the oldest members of the monitor top club. I can't say that I blame him for that. I would be the same way if I had that much to choose from. You have to pick your favorites. I'm still going through that process.
For me, I just like the fact that they are a completely different beast vs anything else ever made. Sure, you can draw "some" similarities to the old Frigidaire meter miser rotary compressors but even those are vastly different in the grand scheme of things. And, as much as I like my two old Frigidaires (UNHEALTHILY SO, I was reading a service manual that Travis also sold me last night), even I have to admit that they are boring in operation when compared to any monitor top. I just love the bloop sound and the healthy gurgle of oil that I hear from my little CA.
Oh, and Travis and his friend Lou did really like this particular CA. I think they even named it "Nell", correct me if I'm wrong Travis! In fact, he was a little sad to let it go but I promised both of them that I would always take good care of it. They made me promise not to sell that one or the 1936 Frigidaire that I have also posted about. Not just because it is an old fridge, but because they have a back story and have been so well taken care of. It is just so nice and original. It just needs a little love to keep going. You can tell it has never been abused. That is why I am even hesitant to paint the thing because it has a nice "worn" look to it without being too far gone. It even has some interesting kit that came with it. Some would say "unobtanium" for something this old. Tonight, if I get a chance, I am going to take a few pictures of it and what came with it and make a new thread about this machine. This particular one is special in my eyes and was special to Travis too. God, I need to start looking at cars again and do something masculine...I'm getting all choked up!
Trust me, it is impossible for anyone to look at that "10 Star Refrigerator" with its unique evenly spaced condenser and not be a little smitten.
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Post by Travis on Jul 7, 2016 17:05:17 GMT
Chris,
As someone that has had their hands on at least 250 vintage refrigerators in the past ten years, I am calling bullshit. I have had to quickly evaluate, save, and scrap many as storage became unavailable. Many of these were collected by a friend who took most anything pre 1960. I realized that I needed to narrow down to pre WWII if I wanted to have a chance of fitting in the new storage location. There were probably 40 or so monitor tops or various models.
I have gravitated towards the DR's because they're the oldest. They have a distinctive look. They also are the most frequently destroyed by unsuspecting people that want an old refrigerator, but don't know what they're doing. I have in a way become a home for orphan DR's. I did so partly to save the machines and partly to save the parts for my future needs.
Considering the issues with the CA's, I have never felt the need to have a CA form B. It would seem more advantageous to find a CK B and not have to deal with the quirks of the CA. I do very much like the CA form A. Considering that I have five of them, how can you say I don't love them? I do wish you could come to terms with your fear of SO2 and see that there is more to be had in the vintage refrigerator world.
Ray is completely right. The CA1 A that he got from Lou was special to him. He got that from a good friend of the original owner. I don't remember if the original owner or the friend was named Nell. It has all it's warranty paperwork, the bill of sale and it's chiller tray. I believe it had been repainted once. When Lou got it, it had a relay problem. I knew it was special to Lou. I also knew that I didn't need three CA 1 A's!
I respect and love them all, but you will quickly become overwhelmed if you just bring home any old refrigerator regardless of cost.
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Post by ckfan on Jul 8, 2016 13:30:31 GMT
Ok, yet another update on my little CA. Yesterday after work I decided to time the cycles again. Oddly enough, the times don't look good. I think I didn't time things with a stopwatch the first time around so maybe they haven't shifted much but at any rate something is still off. On time jumped up to 6 minutes and off time was a paltry 9 minutes. Hmm...I shut off the unit for the time being.
The door seal is in OK shape. It will hold a dollar at all points around the door. It was replaced at some point but it is pretty hard now. I put a new inner top seal in before setting the top onto the cabinet and it seems to be sealing well. I didn't feel any condensation. However, I also tried to put an outer seal in but I bought a seal that was too large and it was causing the evaporator plate to not touch the inner seal that I had just put in. I decided to take out the outer seal for the time being since I have read on here before that the inner seal is more important than the outer seal anyways.
Cablehack, you mentioned that you bled your CA 1 the other day since your frost level had dropped and your off time had fallen to 10 minutes which is close to what mine is now. Do NCG's affect off times? I could see where they would affect the on times since it hurts efficiency but I'm wondering from what you posted if they affect off time too. If the answer is yes, I think yet another bleeding is in order. I just don't want to bleed EVERYTHING out!
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Post by ChrisJ on Jul 9, 2016 13:11:18 GMT
What's the ambient temp? Have you added any load to the unit (warm food, bottles etc)?
My times vary greatly depending on the ambient temp, how much food I've got in it, how often I open the door and the frost levels.
With thick frost my on times are usually 6 even 8 minutes but the off times are also extended of course.
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Post by ckfan on Jul 9, 2016 20:48:02 GMT
The ambient temp in the room is about 80 degrees. I had nothing in the cabinet but the chiller tray. I also had opened the door for a few seconds to check on the frost before I started timing it.
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Post by ChrisJ on Jul 9, 2016 22:21:28 GMT
The ambient temp in the room is about 80 degrees. I had nothing in the cabinet but the chiller tray. I also had opened the door for a few seconds to check on the frost before I started timing it. Opening the door for a few seconds is a killer, especially in an 80F room. You probably replaced all of the air in the cabinet with 80F air in only a few seconds. This means the evaporator, chiller tray, racks and cabinet liner needed to make up for that and it would likely take hours to stabilize again. As long as power consumption seems reasonable and your frost line is good it's doubtful anything is wrong.
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Post by ckfan on Jul 9, 2016 23:03:00 GMT
I thought that might be the case but I wasn't sure. Again, getting used to this different beast.
Not that it is a fair comparison due to all kinds of outside factors including differences in cabinet sizes and such but... the best energy usage I was able to obtain with my ck was $1.90 a month. The CA after a few days of running only settled down to about $4. I thought that was a bit high but when the thing is running it only uses 150 watts Max. It drops as low as 135. I thought that was really good.
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