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Post by beschen on Jun 2, 2022 23:14:22 GMT
Hello all,
Spent the last few hours scouring posts in the hopes of determining preliminary checks for starting up a unit that has not felt electricity in some time!
With minimal understanding of refrigerators and their operating components, I checked for any contact points within the control box, CR-1050-E-1, and ground for continuity and found no ground faults. With that said, I plugged in the unit, placed the thermostat at the middle, for what ever reason I thought this change anything, and turned the power switch on...
At which time, either the starting relay shunt coil or starting series relay coil began "chattering". I left everything energized while I felt the top of the compressor to feel it running. Not knowing the cause of the "chattering" coil or which one may be the issue. I unplugged the electric cord after an energized duration of approx. 30 seconds. Being dangerous from lack of experience on these systems, I attempted again armed with a screwdriver and after a few seconds, held down the armature keeping the start contacts open and proceeded to let the system run for a short time, approx. 3 minutes. To my surprise, the freezer housing began to get cold ! I turned the switch off and unplugged the cord. I thought, Cool it works, no pun intended.
I came back hours later only to find different results when I energized the system except I did notice the "chattering" relay was intermittent and at times remained silent, energized, for several minutes at a time... After approx. 5 minutes running and no cooling was determined, switched it off and unplugged the system with disappointment...
Any direction is appreciated in the hopes of resurrecting this old frig which is in good condition... Or did I inadvertently cause irreversible damage...?
Thank you for your time and wisdom on this issue! Jim
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 2, 2022 23:43:29 GMT
Hello all,
Spent the last few hours scouring posts in the hopes of determining preliminary checks for starting up a unit that has not felt electricity in some time!
With minimal understanding of refrigerators and their operating components, I checked for any contact points within the control box, CR-1050-E-1, and ground for continuity and found no ground faults. With that said, I plugged in the unit, placed the thermostat at the middle, for what ever reason I thought this change anything, and turned the power switch on...
At which time, either the starting relay shunt coil or starting series relay coil began "chattering". I left everything energized while I felt the top of the compressor to feel it running. Not knowing the cause of the "chattering" coil or which one may be the issue. I unplugged the electric cord after an energized duration of approx. 30 seconds. Being dangerous from lack of experience on these systems, I attempted again armed with a screwdriver and after a few seconds, held down the armature keeping the start contacts open and proceeded to let the system run for a short time, approx. 3 minutes. To my surprise, the freezer housing began to get cold ! I turned the switch off and unplugged the cord. I thought, Cool it works, no pun intended.
I came back hours later only to find different results when I energized the system except I did notice the "chattering" relay was intermittent and at times remained silent, energized, for several minutes at a time... After approx. 5 minutes running and no cooling was determined, switched it off and unplugged the system with disappointment...
Any direction is appreciated in the hopes of resurrecting this old frig which is in good condition... Or did I inadvertently cause irreversible damage...?
Thank you for your time and wisdom on this issue! Jim
Hi Jim. Thanks for joining our forum! It's good that you read up on some of the things to look for on the DR machines. Can you please share pictures of the whole unit, the control, and the parts which were chattering? One of the most important things at this point is getting an accurate current measurement of the machine while it is running. You need a meter such as the P3 Kill-A-Watt to plug the unit into. It should use less than 3 amps once it's running. Most if not all DR machines have a crankcase heater in the bottom of the compressor. This helps to keep refrigerant out of the oil and ensure proper lubrication of the machinery. The heater needs to be checked and verified working. There are several threads on that, here. If you have a chance, make a video of it running, as well. Sincerely, David |
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Post by beschen on Jun 3, 2022 12:45:50 GMT
Thanks for the prompt reply David!
I have an older fluke meter I can plug this unit into and see what the draw is...
I'll have to get back later today as I have a busy day...
Thanks again! Jim
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 4, 2022 12:30:07 GMT
Thanks for the prompt reply David! I have an older fluke meter I can plug this unit into and see what the draw is... I'll have to get back later today as I have a busy day... Thanks again! Jim Sounds good. Hope to hear some good news about it! |
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Post by beschen on Jun 4, 2022 15:10:24 GMT
Back with similar results...
I plugged the unit in all night hoping the heater, if working, would heat the oil and possibly change my results. Now that nothing changed, I'll have to explore removing, testing and possibly replacing the heater if necessary...
Uploaded a couple of files to assist with your assessment... One photo showing the underside which brings me to my concern on how to remove the heater to check and/or replace...?
Lastly, Ok to leave upside down while I trouble-shoot the unit...?
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 4, 2022 15:17:31 GMT
Back with similar results... I plugged the unit in hoping the heater, if working, would heat the oil and possibly change my results. Now that nothing changed, I'll have to explore removing, testing and possibly replacing the heater if necessary... Uploaded a couple of files to assist with your assessment... One photo showing the underside which brings me to my concern on how to remove the heater to check and/or replace...? Lastly, Ok to leave upside down while I trouble-shoot the unit...? That's a very odd situation with the control! Never seen one do that exact thing. Did you say that when you press the start armature down, the compressor stays running, and the current draw goes down to normal? I circled the part of the start armature which should be pushed down with a plastic or wood object.  The heater is accessed from the top, with the cooling unit upright. It's under the trim around the neck area. It's OK to leave the unit upside down while working on it; however it should go without saying not to run the compressor unless it is in the correct position. Have you seen my video of fixing a similar one? It shows the heater location and more about the control. https://youtu.be/2gXqcW7O25A |
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Post by beschen on Jun 4, 2022 19:20:42 GMT
David,
Your videos are awesome!
Knowing this unit got cold the first time I fired it up gives me encouragement to see things through until she's purring & cooling!
Since I'm limited on specialty tools for refrigeration, I'm going to sit the compressor top in the hot sun for a few hours and reattempt a startup... Hopefully, full sun will bring everything up to 90 degrees in a few hours... I can get away with that here in Florida!
I did get the heater removed, but before I invest some money on a new heater, I would like to be assured I will be able to get this operational...
I'm all excited about obtaining the service port tool and some gauges but that will make me dangerous ! ! ! I have to remember, I do not have access to a pump, nitrogen, freon or SO2 for that matter and more importantly, the knowledge you have!
I'll report back after this unit sits in the sun for a few hours and a restart is attempted...
Many Thanks again for your time! Jim
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Post by beschen on Jun 5, 2022 0:29:26 GMT
Back with an update that may or may not change my status...
After baking in the sun for a few hours, compressor dome, cast iron top, and coils were nice and warm so I fired it up and had an initial issue that caused the unit to shut itself off on two different occasions. I figured this wasn't very good and decided to attempt a third time since three's a charm and it ran but seemed a little bit noisy, but remember, I do not have a trained ear for this... To my surprise, the evaporator began to cool but unfortunately, only got cool and sweat some since it was probably warm to from sitting in the sun. After a few minutes, the "jingle" noise lessened while the meter displayed 2.3 amp draw during this running test cycle. I shut things down after a 5 min run time... Perhaps, it may be time to purchase the correct heater, install and let heat internally and re-initiate another test cycle... Then evaluate were I'm at...
I may have to seek professional help due to lack of knowledge and tools available...
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 5, 2022 2:02:23 GMT
Back with an update that may or may not change my status...
After baking in the sun for a few hours, compressor dome, cast iron top, and coils were nice and warm so I fired it up and had an initial issue that caused the unit to shut itself off on two different occasions. I figured this wasn't very good and decided to attempt a third time since three's a charm and it ran but seemed a little bit noisy, but remember, I do not have a trained ear for this... To my surprise, the evaporator began to cool but unfortunately, only got cool and sweat some since it was probably warm to from sitting in the sun. After a few minutes, the "jingle" noise lessened while the meter displayed 2.3 amp draw during this running test cycle. I shut things down after a 5 min run time... Perhaps, it may be time to purchase the correct heater, install and let heat internally and re-initiate another test cycle... Then evaluate were I'm at...
I may have to seek professional help due to lack of knowledge and tools available...
Interesting! I have to say, unfortunately, heating the dome and condenser fins is the exact wrong thing to do! The oil needs to be HOTTER than the condenser, so baking the condenser and dome in the sun while the oil sump is concealed in the bottom would exacerbate the problem of refrigerant condensing in the oil. The potential coil on your start-relay is probably open-circuit. You can place a weight on the side of the relay armature which needs to stay down, and it will take the place of the potential coil. Definitely get a good heater in there. What part of the country are you in? I live in Alabama and if you are close, you could bring your unit over to my shop. Sincerely, David |
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Post by beschen on Jun 5, 2022 15:40:32 GMT
And there you have it! Lack of knowledge makes me dangerous! Didn't think that through regarding the sun bake heater technique would heat everything when we just want the oil heated!
I have a quote request in to Nordic Sensors via their cartridge heater configuration form to see their pricing; then I'll call Phoenix Thermal for a price... Any preference between the two companies and/or the products...?
As for the relay possibly being "open", I'll check to see if I get resistance or continuity via metering...
Project will have to go on "a holding pattern" until I get the replacement heater installed and heating things up!
I appreciate the invite and personal attention you've provided thus far, but that would be a little far for me to travel in this current economy! I'm in Ocala, FL
I have an original Mills Soda Pop Vendor that I'll be looking to investigate its potential for resurrecting it to cool once again...
Many Thanks for your wisdom ! ! !
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Post by beschen on Jun 6, 2022 20:28:38 GMT
Heater, 0.47"dia X 2 1/2" long, 120v @ 24w, from PTS is on its way! I'll check back with you after I let the newly installed heater work some magic over night and attempt a start-up...
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 6, 2022 21:50:17 GMT
Heater, 0.47"dia X 2 1/2" long, 120v @ 24w, from PTS is on its way! I'll check back with you after I let the newly installed heater work some magic over night and attempt a start-up... Great! Hoping for positive results! |
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Post by beschen on Jun 11, 2022 14:19:04 GMT
I'm back with good results!
Left the new 24w heater running for 18 hours, fired up the system and within a minute or two so the porcelain evaporator was getting cold! Purring like a kitten, meaning it's pretty quiet, and only drawing 2.5amps. Also have even heat dissipation through out the condensing coils top to bottom. I do not have the best insulated box to keep the cold in, but started frosting up in 10 min - 12 min so I placed a thermometer in the evaporator to record a temp... After running for 30 min, thermometer told me it was getting down to 38 degrees!
Still have the issue with the start coil/relay "chattering" so I'll solder a weight onto the start/run armature as you did. Any direction where to purchase a nice original replacement cord with the correct female end...?
So now I have to rig a lift harness to get the top onto the cabinet... Debating on a repaint now that I know she works... It's in decent condition but it's only original once!
Many Thanks to David for his patience and guidance ! ! !
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 11, 2022 14:36:26 GMT
I'm back with good results! Left the new 24w heater running for 18 hours, fired up the system and within a minute or two so the porcelain evaporator was getting cold! Purring like a kitten, meaning it's pretty quiet, and only drawing 2.5amps. Also have even heat dissipation through out the condensing coils top to bottom. I do not have the best insulated box to keep the cold in, but started frosting up in 10 min - 12 min so I placed a thermometer in the evaporator to record a temp... After running for 30 min, thermometer told me it was getting down to 38 degrees! Still have the issue with the start coil/relay "chattering" so I'll solder a weight onto the start/run armature as you did. Any direction where to purchase a nice original replacement cord with the correct female end...? So now I have to rig a lift harness to get the top onto the cabinet... Debating on a repaint now that I know she works... It's in decent condition but it's only original once! Many Thanks to David for his patience and guidance ! ! ! This is great news! I'm happy to hear that it's working for you. It's hopefully going to be easy for you to get the start-relay working by adding a weight to it. I used a 3/8 nut with solder inside it to attach it to the start-relay armature. It's hard to get an exact replacement cord. I've been able to get a replacement 2-wire cord end from the hardware store. It needs to have some minor modifications made to it, to fit, but it does the job. |
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Post by beschen on Jun 11, 2022 21:50:22 GMT
Hello again,
Checking back in with a couple of questions...
Attempting to verify cycling "on/off" times before I attempt ANY modifications. What temperature ranges should I expect for the refrigerator cooling section and for the little freezer box(evaporator)...? I observed what temp the unit would shut off which was 50 degrees with the thermostat at the 3 o'clock position. Turned the dial counter-clockwise to set colder and went to 9 o'clock; the relays "chattered" as described before but did engage properly as the compressor fired up and began running again.
It's been several hours now and I have not noticed the unit shutting off. Currently, thermometer shows approx. 25 degrees in the freezer box with nice even frost. The part in question is the compressor top temperature; I can no longer keep my hand on the top as it's too hot! The coils are above warm but not hot in any way. Is this acceptable...? Unfortunately, I do not have a test valve and gauges see what pressures I have... At this point, the thermostat is set at the 9 o'clock position while I wait for it to shut down at which time I'll record the temps in both freezer and cooler now that I added a second thermometer... Hopefully, I am not causing any internal damage due to the excessive heat...
On another note, where can I research the number sequence stamped on the bottom: A-29-2-61
And lastly, just sharing a photo putting the two units back together than may have separated decades ago!
Thanks again in advance for any insight! Jim
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