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Post by Travis on Dec 12, 2020 20:49:24 GMT
Another significant reason for design changes is to avoid patent issues.
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Post by ckfan on Dec 13, 2020 4:35:19 GMT
The worst refrigerators I work on, LG refrigerators, are not cheap. I just looked them up and you can get them on sale for $3,700. Of course this is one of the nicer models with all of the whizz bang features. In the door refrigerator ice maker. Deli drawer with flexible temperatures, and a whole section that can be a freezer or a fridge section. So they aren’t cheap. It kills me a little inside when I go to a persons house and have to diagnose one that has a bad compressor. This happens very often on these LGs. They have a linear compressor that is very badly made. The valves break and the compressor stops pumping. I diagnosed one that was only two years old. Of course it was out of warranty. It really made me sad to break the news to the family.
I guess my point is that yes, things were expensive back then. There was a lot of quality in most products made back then though. Sure, there was also crap made back then but it’s nothing like today. Now when you pay a high price, you get a thin sheet of stainless and lots of features that will make the damn thing more prone to breaking. Things that you don’t NEED. I would much rather have a fridge that lasts longer than 10 years vs one that has a “flex drawer”. It’s just sad that people read good reviews on these, spend a lot of money thinking that they are truly getting something good, and then it shoots craps after a few years.
The upside is that I’ve gotten good practice at changing compressors with those. I think I’ve changed out 7 or 8 of them already in the span of a year. And that’s for home warranty customers where the warranty company doesn’t mind footing the bill since it is technically cheaper than buying a new one.
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Post by ChrisJ on Dec 13, 2020 5:32:42 GMT
The worst refrigerators I work on, LG refrigerators, are not cheap. I just looked them up and you can get them on sale for $3,700. Of course this is one of the nicer models with all of the whizz bang features. In the door refrigerator ice maker. Deli drawer with flexible temperatures, and a whole section that can be a freezer or a fridge section. So they aren’t cheap. It kills me a little inside when I go to a persons house and have to diagnose one that has a bad compressor. This happens very often on these LGs. They have a linear compressor that is very badly made. The valves break and the compressor stops pumping. I diagnosed one that was only two years old. Of course it was out of warranty. It really made me sad to break the news to the family. I guess my point is that yes, things were expensive back then. There was a lot of quality in most products made back then though. Sure, there was also crap made back then but it’s nothing like today. Now when you pay a high price, you get a thin sheet of stainless and lots of features that will make the damn thing more prone to breaking. Things that you don’t NEED. I would much rather have a fridge that lasts longer than 10 years vs one that has a “flex drawer”. It’s just sad that people read good reviews on these, spend a lot of money thinking that they are truly getting something good, and then it shoots craps after a few years. The upside is that I’ve gotten good practice at changing compressors with those. I think I’ve changed out 7 or 8 of them already in the span of a year. And that’s for home warranty customers where the warranty company doesn’t mind footing the bill since it is technically cheaper than buying a new one. The spec'd failure rate of the it CK series was 0.2% per year I believe. So if they made 1,000,000 of them 2000 would die in the first year. No? I'm told 0.2% is incredibly low but it's still not zero. What percentage of the LGs fail in a year or two?
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Post by coldspaces on Dec 13, 2020 6:11:10 GMT
The worst refrigerators I work on, LG refrigerators, are not cheap. I just looked them up and you can get them on sale for $3,700. Of course this is one of the nicer models with all of the whizz bang features. In the door refrigerator ice maker. Deli drawer with flexible temperatures, and a whole section that can be a freezer or a fridge section. So they aren’t cheap. It kills me a little inside when I go to a persons house and have to diagnose one that has a bad compressor. This happens very often on these LGs. They have a linear compressor that is very badly made. The valves break and the compressor stops pumping. I diagnosed one that was only two years old. Of course it was out of warranty. It really made me sad to break the news to the family. I guess my point is that yes, things were expensive back then. There was a lot of quality in most products made back then though. Sure, there was also crap made back then but it’s nothing like today. Now when you pay a high price, you get a thin sheet of stainless and lots of features that will make the damn thing more prone to breaking. Things that you don’t NEED. I would much rather have a fridge that lasts longer than 10 years vs one that has a “flex drawer”. It’s just sad that people read good reviews on these, spend a lot of money thinking that they are truly getting something good, and then it shoots craps after a few years. The upside is that I’ve gotten good practice at changing compressors with those. I think I’ve changed out 7 or 8 of them already in the span of a year. And that’s for home warranty customers where the warranty company doesn’t mind footing the bill since it is technically cheaper than buying a new one. The Linear compressors have been breaking valves for years, I would have thought they would have changed the damn valve design by now. And a BIG yes to today frigs being overcomplicated junk.
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Post by Travis on Dec 13, 2020 17:42:00 GMT
People have been trained to want the new shiny object. It’s a problem with some of the GenX and most of the millennials. I’ve had this discussion with many my age and older and we all just sigh. Most of this is wrapped up with an energy star logo so they can feel good about themselves while they’re being mounted.
I’m sure we’re capable of producing quality goods, but it’s tough to compete against lower cost options. Ray mentioned the $3700 LG. A larger model DR3($795) in 1929 would be close to $12,000 now.
There’s no excuse for the short lifespan of some new appliances. I’d certainly get an extended warranty.
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Post by turbokinetic on Dec 13, 2020 17:48:45 GMT
People have been trained to want the new shiny object. It’s a problem with some of the GenX and most of the millennials. I’ve had this discussion with many my age and older and we all just sigh. Most of this is wrapped up with an energy star logo so they can feel good about themselves while they’re being mounted. I’m sure we’re capable of producing quality goods, but it’s tough to compete against lower cost options. Ray mentioned the $3700 LG. A larger model DR3($795) in 1929 would be close to $12,000 now. There’s no excuse for the short lifespan of some new appliances. I’d certainly get an extended warranty. You're "preaching to the choir" my friend! Completely agree. This acceptance of crap quality has come from poor education starting at home and in gradeschool. If nobody tells you things aren't supposed to be like this, then people have no way to know it's wrong.
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Post by ckfan on Dec 13, 2020 19:16:15 GMT
Chris, I don’t know what the percentage of failures on those LG refrigerators is. I would like to find that out. It must be very high. I’ve only seen two other refrigerators with compressor failures. I’ve personally diagnosed at least 20 of these LG compressors being dead. My coworkers have diagnosed many more.
I think another thing to consider regarding price is the fact that as technology matures, prices go down. When the original monitor tops were released in the 20s, it was groundbreaking technology. Now when you buy an expensive refrigerator, you are paying for a lot of features that you don’t really need. The technology behind actually making your food cold has been well understood and understood for many decades. I think that the Goldilocks period where you got maximum reliability for your dollar was at some point in the early R12 period before the use of plastic and cheap materials everywhere.
Even in the early 90s you could go out and buy a cheap fridge with lots of plastic inside and it would usually be fine. My parents bought a “cheap” Hotpoint in 1992 that they still use to this day. It’s always been their main kitchen fridge. The only two things it’s ever needed are a new ice maker and defrost timer. Nothing is even broken on the inside even though it gets hard use.
I think the last few decades have seen an emphasis placed on features and low cost at the expense of materials used and cheaper overall designs.
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Post by ChrisJ on Dec 13, 2020 20:15:46 GMT
Chris, I don’t know what the percentage of failures on those LG refrigerators is. I would like to find that out. It must be very high. I’ve only seen two other refrigerators with compressor failures. I’ve personally diagnosed at least 20 of these LG compressors being dead. My coworkers have diagnosed many more. I think another thing to consider regarding price is the fact that as technology matures, prices go down. When the original monitor tops were released in the 20s, it was groundbreaking technology. Now when you buy an expensive refrigerator, you are paying for a lot of features that you don’t really need. The technology behind actually making your food cold has been well understood and understood for many decades. I think that the Goldilocks period where you got maximum reliability for your dollar was at some point in the early R12 period before the use of plastic and cheap materials everywhere. Even in the early 90s you could go out and buy a cheap fridge with lots of plastic inside and it would usually be fine. My parents bought a “cheap” Hotpoint in 1992 that they still use to this day. It’s always been their main kitchen fridge. The only two things it’s ever needed are a new ice maker and defrost timer. Nothing is even broken on the inside even though it gets hard use. I think the last few decades have seen an emphasis placed on features and low cost at the expense of materials used and cheaper overall designs. My parents have an early 90s GE bottom of the line fridge manual defrost that I wish there were far more of. It does the job and does it well. I'm looking for a 1940s fridge to replace our main fridge with when it dies. Its a 2011 kitchenaid / whirlpool and I don't have too much faith in it. The wife likes the 1940s style fridges so I figured I'd try to get her one.
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Post by Travis on Dec 14, 2020 0:58:30 GMT
I suspect the absolute decline of basic functional appliances is tied with the government getting involved with energy guidelines. I know this has happened with dishwashers.
Ray was telling me about a refrigerator with a hot water talk for tea. What? A refrigerator is for keeping your food cold.
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Post by ChrisJ on Dec 14, 2020 2:31:30 GMT
I suspect the absolute decline of basic functional appliances is tied with the government getting involved with energy guidelines. I know this has happened with dishwashers. Ray was telling me about a refrigerator with a hot water talk for tea. What? A refrigerator is for keeping your food cold. GE was adding heated butter compartments starting in the 1940s so...... A heated compartment in a box you're trying to keep cold........ I get the hot water. I've seen such on kitchen sinks so if you're going to have a ice maker and water dispenser why not. I refuse to have an ice maker. Other than a monitor top.
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Post by ckfan on Dec 14, 2020 4:29:25 GMT
I’ll grant you that the butter conditioner was a decent idea (I just leave mine out on the counter in a covered dish and it’s fine). The hot water tank is right next to the pre cooling loop for the cold water dispenser though. Fortunately the hot water tank was above it, but still. That was fun to work on, let me tell you. NO room to work on it.
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