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Post by scooter76 on Jan 8, 2014 17:23:20 GMT
Thank you! Nice write-up. I'm not as nervous about it now that you've confirmed and answered my questions. On the Bristol key, I just ordered a set from these guys. www.mgs4u.com/Bristol-spline-L-keys.htmIt is interesting to note what they say in regards to the SL-607R "Special" Bristol Spline L-Key Kit (last one listed on the page): "The new SL-607R kit is identical to the SL-607, except that it comes with one additional L-key, the EXTREMELY hard to get .216-6OS! The .216-6OS is an obsolete "old style" spline key which is used in refrigeration. Refrigeration technicians should not be without this kit. Nothing else will work including the standard .216-6 for many refrigeration applications."I know I've seen a discussion on here about some .216 keys working and some not. Perhaps this explains why! Powerglide - On the heaters, service was excellent and lightning fast, but not cheap. Like $80 each. I assume ordering more than two would have dropped the price considerably. Speaking of which, I wonder how many years ago GE stopped supplying their original Cat. 11X100 heater or its replacement? I'd be fairly certain that tens of thousands of these were still in operation as late as maybe the 1960's - and I assume open heaters were super common - funny that none of us have ever run into a stash of "NOS" GE heaters?
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Post by ChrisJ on Jan 8, 2014 17:26:41 GMT
I'm not sure but I think I was quoted either $30 or $40 a piece for the heaters at a quantity of 6.
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Post by cablehack on Jan 9, 2014 3:05:09 GMT
Speaking of which, I wonder how many years ago GE stopped supplying their original Cat. 11X100 heater or its replacement? I'd be fairly certain that tens of thousands of these were still in operation as late as maybe the 1960's - and I assume open heaters were super common - funny that none of us have ever run into a stash of "NOS" GE heaters? The heater does look the same physically as the one used in the double door Flatops to stop sweating in the middle door jamb. They call it a "mullion heater". I think that it was of lower power though. That's a really interesting question - how long did GE provide parts for? Given the amount of these in operation, it would have to be well into the 1960's as you say, if not later, and there may have been generic parts from other suppliers. I also wonder how long GE was prepared to keep purging NCG's for...whether they decided not to maintain the CA after a certain time. I have to wonder also if the FEA unit was specifically made to replace troublesome CA's. This is when we need someone who's owned a CA all their life and had it serviced to tell us what happened.
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Post by scooter76 on Jan 10, 2014 16:51:15 GMT
I would assume there was some conscious awareness within the GE service organization that continuing to provide parts and service indefinitely would mean that some owners would never buy a new refrigerator. By the 1960's, most owners were probably elated to have gotten 30 plus years of service from their machines, so likely protested very little at the discontinuation of parts and service (also, these things were considered ugly and well out of fashion at that time and likely had zero collector appeal. I bet you couldn't GIVE one away at that time).
I'm going to bleed mine this weekend if my bristol key set comes in the mail today or tomorrow. How hot should the pan of water be? Just as hot as the tap can provide, or do I need to heat it further on the stove? Place it on the evap with it running? Or put in in and then start it? I don't want to stall it out.
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Post by cablehack on Jan 10, 2014 23:25:12 GMT
I use water that's about 70-80C. Depending on your hot water system, the tap water might be hot enough - give it a try. The compressor must be running all the time, so turn the knob to 9 and leave the door wide open. I put the water in after starting and running the compressor for a few minutes. I hadn't thought about stalling it by heating the evaporator first, but could be a good point.
It will take a few minutes for the condenser to start warming, but if there's still no positive pressure within about 10 mins, you'll need to heat the water again.
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Post by scooter76 on Jan 11, 2014 23:38:20 GMT
OK....did a purge on this today without issue. However, even after close to an hour of 3/1 cycles, I still wasn't able to get the top of the float chamber near as warm to the touch as the condenser / dome (I had the condenser blanketed). The manual illustrates a Form A machine, so perhaps the extension on the Form B chamber acts somewhat like a heat sink and maybe it never does get as warm? Furthermore, frost line improved dramatically now (left header completely frosted and right side about halfway). However, still some metallic pinging noise at early in cycle, although I think it's better.
I figure I'll let it run overnight and see what it sounds like tomorrow. I'm assuming still needs further purging due to the remaining noise and cooler float chamber. Definitely better, though!
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Post by ChrisJ on Jan 12, 2014 0:11:31 GMT
I haven't worked on my form B machines yet but my assumption is only the top of the actual float housing should be warm. The extension running up probably wouldn't ever get very warm.
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Post by cablehack on Jan 12, 2014 22:20:12 GMT
It's not the top of the riser tube...it's the body of the float chamber; ie. the lumpy bit sticking out of the cabinet top under the condenser fins. I suppose the manual is a not entirely clear on the form B because the form A as illustrated does not have the riser tube. The riser tube never gets very warm.
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Post by scooter76 on Jan 18, 2014 22:40:39 GMT
Right...reaching under the condenser and placing my hand on the top of the actual chamber, it never got nearly as warm as the upper part of the condenser or dome, even after bleeding for about an hour the first time and close to an hour the next day. I was reluctant to continue for fear that I'm loosing a considerable amount of refrigerant.
I know the manual says to bleed until the temps feel equal, but hard to believe it would require that much purging? Also, wouldn't the additional heat created by the motor running nonstop for an hour under a blanket eventually lead to the condenser always being at a higher temp than the float chamber?
Regardless, it's still not right. I can fill the ice trays with hot water and the frost line will rise up to normal on the right and the compressor runs quietly. As soon as the water freezes and the load goes away, frost line drops down to about halfway up the right side of the evap and compressor gets noisy again.
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Post by ChrisJ on Jan 18, 2014 23:20:44 GMT
Have you smelled any methyl formate while bleeding? If you haven't, I'd keep bleeding. If you loose refrigerant, you'll have to buy more which stinks, but is possible. One caveat with this from what I recall Sigma-Aldrich will only ship to a commercial address. If you try to use a residential address it will get denied.
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Post by allan on Jan 19, 2014 0:13:35 GMT
Right...reaching under the condenser and placing my hand on the top of the actual chamber, it never got nearly as warm as the upper part of the condenser or dome, even after bleeding for about an hour the first time and close to an hour the next day. I was reluctant to continue for fear that I'm loosing a considerable amount of refrigerant. I know the manual says to bleed until the temps feel equal, but hard to believe it would require that much purging? Also, wouldn't the additional heat created by the motor running nonstop for an hour under a blanket eventually lead to the condenser always being at a higher temp than the float chamber? Regardless, it's still not right. I can fill the ice trays with hot water and the frost line will rise up to normal on the right and the compressor runs quietly. As soon as the water freezes and the load goes away, frost line drops down to about halfway up the right side of the evap and compressor gets noisy again. When you say right header is normal, with warm ice trays, what do you mean? My machine is now constant every day at about 5/8 up right side tank. When I change out ice trays it jumps up to 3/4 to 7/8 up the right tank and back to 5/8 when trays freeze. I had the same conditions you describe when I did the cap tube conversion on my machine and I had to add MF to correct it. Do you have the cap tube conversion?
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Post by cablehack on Jan 19, 2014 2:27:42 GMT
That does sound like a lot of bleeding time, but I've had to do similar in the early days of my CA-2. I don't use a blanket over the compressor while bleeding, but I'd be inclined to agree that condenser temperature would increase because of radiation from the compressor. And the compressor does get rather warm the longer it runs. The frost line level actually sounds about right. You'll know if you lose a significant amount of refrigerant because the frost line will drop. So far, it sounds like you haven't lost any.
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Post by scooter76 on Jan 19, 2014 5:27:40 GMT
No cap conversion on this one. Still running with factory float valve configuration.
I should clarify on the frost level. Under load with hot water in the pans, frost line is about halfway up the right header. However, once the water becomes frozen and the noise returns, the frost line drops to about the level of the shelf - nowhere near the bottom of the header. I do think the frost line line is now even lower now that I've purged it.
So, pretty sure I've lost some methyl formate, but frustrated by the fact that I've never gotten a warm float valve (or at least not nearly as warm as the upper turns of the condenser coil).
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Post by allan on Jan 19, 2014 21:28:27 GMT
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Post by allan on Jan 19, 2014 21:32:03 GMT
This is a shot of my CA2 form B that has amazed me since installing the ice trays. Since the cap tube conversion I had always left the freezer empty. Now with the trays cycle times are improved and the frost line is rock steady! The compressor has less rattling than ever and mostly runs with no rattle at all
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