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Post by csulaguy on Nov 20, 2018 22:27:26 GMT
I hate having to start a new thread for a simple question, but it starts off as "Now what?" I hooked up a Supco to my DR-2 in case the controls don't work. Got smart per David's suggestion and hooked up a device to measure wattage. 15.5 watts taken up by my 15 watt heater. When the power for the fridge kicks in, it's drawing 900-1000 watts, but I don't hear ANYTHING. Maybe 10 seconds later, a click from the Supco relay and it's back to only the heater being on. I'm going to assume this is why this DR-2 sat unused in a basement in Milwaukee for the last several decades.
In regards to the "now what?" question, I'm guessing this means a motor rebuild. Is it even worth doing at this point, as DR-2s aren't exactly as rare as say a DR3? I'm still going to try and adapt the controls and some long leads to see if my DRA3 works, though.
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Post by birkie on Nov 20, 2018 22:41:36 GMT
I hate having to start a new thread for a simple question, but it starts off as "Now what?" It is essential to measure the resistance of the motor windings as a first step! This point cannot be stressed enough for a DR. Start-common, common-run, start-run, and any-chassis. The manual shows clearly the wiring in the back of the control, and the measurement is easy to take with an ohmmeter. This will confirm or rule out bad windings vs a stuck compressor, etc. |
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Post by csulaguy on Nov 20, 2018 23:11:26 GMT
Already done. No short to ground/chassis, and everything tested under 8 ohms. I measured start to common, run to common, and start to run.
So with that said, the windings appear to be good, but the compressor appears to be stuck at this point.
There are times I wish this forum were on facebook (or we had a facebook forum), so we could post pictures. It's still odd I would get a high current reading from my Watts Up Pro, but when it was using its own controls, I don't recall the overload doing its job.
I should've recorded all my readings, but most were like 2.5-5 ohms. Any lead to chassis was 1.9 M ohms or higher.
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Post by Travis on Nov 20, 2018 23:56:24 GMT
Paul,
Please post the resistance readings from your motor. Com to Start, Com to run and run to start. Are you sure none of those are grounded? It's very possible that it's stalled from sitting. You can either buy a compressor annie of follow along with whatever David tells you.
You know you have a problem with the control. I thought I told you to go through it with your meter and to find the bad connection?
You have a 1929 or possibly a 1930 unit.
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Post by csulaguy on Nov 21, 2018 1:23:48 GMT
The serial tag along the fins starts with 3, so I assumed it was 1933. I could be wrong. Remember, we're talking about the DR-2 and not my DRA-3.
I'll post resistance readings tomorrow when there's light outside.
I'd be open to a compressor Annie, just not a real Annie (had an ex-girlfriend named Annie, and she wasn't a very nice person).
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Post by Travis on Nov 21, 2018 1:45:48 GMT
Paul,
Everything with a tall control is 29 or earlier I believe, possibly 30.
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Post by solarmike on Nov 21, 2018 1:50:20 GMT
There are times I wish this forum were on facebook (or we had a facebook forum), so we could post pictures. Not me, Not everyone is on facebook..... There are many places to post your pics from... Good luck with your DR-2...
If it's stuck you could try that over voltage trick....
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Post by birkie on Nov 21, 2018 2:50:59 GMT
The serial tag along the fins starts with 3, so I assumed it was 1933. I could be wrong Feel free to post that too. If it's six or fewer digits long, then it's one of the earlier machines whose serial number does not appear to correspond to any specific year. Rebuilds make this even more complicated. In the 1930s, they were simply assigning one of those "leading digits starts with the year" serial numbers. When they moved to Bridgeport, the rebuild serial numbers started with two digits, and had hyphens. The two digits (e.g. 41-) represents the year. Not everyone is on facebook..... There are many places to post your pics from... For the time being, please host images externally (e.g. flickr, google drive, google photos, imgur, smugmug, etc). I've volunteered to help fix this forum to use an alternative hosting mechanism, but with a growing family and demanding job have found woefully less time than anticipated over the past few months. So with that said, the windings appear to be good, but the compressor appears to be stuck at this point. ... I should've recorded all my readings, but most were like 2.5-5 ohms. Any lead to chassis was 1.9 M ohms or higher. Record everything  It sounds does sound like they are probably OK, but do share Look at the video here for some inspiration: monitortop.freeforums.net/thread/1516/seize-stuck-using-voltages-allI'm also a fan of running the motor in reverse. On the DR2, you'd want a start capacitor, and would need to wire things a little differently in the control. I did that to our DRB3, and it worked well. I believe it seized long ago due to a stuck float, which led to refrigerant in the sump and a subsequent failure of lubrication. |
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Post by csulaguy on Nov 21, 2018 5:17:45 GMT
Paul, Everything with a tall control is 29 or earlier I believe, possibly 30. Aha, good to know. So the first digit implying 1933 should be disregarded in this case? Of course, in addition to the tall control, I also have the pig evap. There are times I wish this forum were on facebook (or we had a facebook forum), so we could post pictures. Not me, Not everyone is on facebook..... There are many places to post your pics from... Good luck with your DR-2... If it's stuck you could try that over voltage trick....
It sure is tempting. David suggested using a 500 uF motor capacitor, so I'll try that first. The 240V trick will be interesting, as I don't readily have 240V, so I'd have to get it from my diesel generator (which isn't exactly quiet). The serial tag along the fins starts with 3, so I assumed it was 1933. I could be wrong Feel free to post that too. If it's six or fewer digits long, then it's one of the earlier machines whose serial number does not appear to correspond to any specific year. Rebuilds make this even more complicated. In the 1930s, they were simply assigning one of those "leading digits starts with the year" serial numbers. When they moved to Bridgeport, the rebuild serial numbers started with two digits, and had hyphens. The two digits (e.g. 41-) represents the year. Aha, very interesting. That would explain 1944 being the rebuild for my DRA3 (which would make sense, given the war effort probably hastened anything other than a rebuild). I got to see the DR-2 that got me interested in all this a decade ago on Sunday. It was funny that I wasn't allowed to open the door, but it felt like it was glued shut, anyways. I bet it was missing the evap and probably leaked SO2 all over the place at some point. Had a plug for the heater instead of a screwed-on plate, and had a rebuild tag of 1946! Not everyone is on facebook..... There are many places to post your pics from... For the time being, please host images externally (e.g. flickr, google drive, google photos, imgur, smugmug, etc). I've volunteered to help fix this forum to use an alternative hosting mechanism, but with a growing family and demanding job have found woefully less time than anticipated over the past few months. So with that said, the windings appear to be good, but the compressor appears to be stuck at this point. ... I should've recorded all my readings, but most were like 2.5-5 ohms. Any lead to chassis was 1.9 M ohms or higher. Record everything It sounds does sound like they are probably OK, but do share Look at the video here for some inspiration: monitortop.freeforums.net/thread/1516/seize-stuck-using-voltages-allI'm also a fan of running the motor in reverse. On the DR2, you'd want a start capacitor, and would need to wire things a little differently in the control. I did that to our DRB3, and it worked well. I believe it seized long ago due to a stuck float, which led to refrigerant in the sump and a subsequent failure of lubrication. [/quote] Which makes me glad I haven't run my museum DR1 further, as it has a stuck float or other restriction. I know we have google drive, so I can probably upload my photos to there. |
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 21, 2018 5:22:05 GMT
Hi Paul, with the diesel generator, how many kVa is that capable of providing? Reactive power (kVa) is what will help to break the motor free. You will need about 10 kVa of ass to do this.
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Post by csulaguy on Nov 21, 2018 6:15:18 GMT
It's only rated for 3000 watts; not sure what the peak is. I do also have a bigger generator I can use, that's rated for 7KW, and if need be, a PTO generator (more of a PITA to hook up) that's good for 25KW, and also provides 480V.
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Post by Travis on Nov 21, 2018 14:55:11 GMT
You're never going to hear it run with a generator running Paul. I rocked a DR35 back and forth with an annie and a 300 mfd capacitor.
I'e never seen a DRA3. You must have a weird one.
The dating is only reliable from 1933 and later.
In my experience, type A or C controls were 27, 28, 29
type D controls on DR1's 29
type E controls and open evaps 30
D2's 31-32
Last large D35's sold in 1933 because they didn't have large CA units 1933
All CA form A's 1933
CA form B 34
CK2 B's 35
None of this is set in stone. They were selling like hotcakes and I suspect that some changes occurred as parts ran out on the assembly line. I also suspect that many type A machines got updated to the type C control in the field. All bets are off as to what happened during the rebuilding process. I have seen a DRA2 with a DR1 form B evap. I have a DR1 with a stainless evap. Some odd variants came from the rebuild process. I think if it made cold it shipped.
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Post by csulaguy on Nov 21, 2018 15:45:44 GMT
You're never going to hear it run with a generator running Paul. I rocked a DR35 back and forth with an annie and a 300 mfd capacitor. I'e never seen a DRA3. You must have a weird one. The dating is only reliable from 1933 and later. In my experience, type A or C controls were 27, 28, 29 type D controls on DR1's 29 type E controls and open evaps 30 D2's 31-32 Last large D35's sold in 1933 because they didn't have large CA units 1933 All CA form A's 1933 CA form B 34 CK2 B's 35 None of this is set in stone. They were selling like hotcakes and I suspect that some changes occurred as parts ran out on the assembly line. I also suspect that many type A machines got updated to the type C control in the field. All bets are off as to what happened during the rebuilding process. I have seen a DRA2 with a DR1 form B evap. I have a DR1 with a stainless evap. Some odd variants came from the rebuild process. I think if it made cold it shipped. Sadly, I already know this about the generator. I honestly wasn't thinking when I wrote the post, but the 7KW would be my best bet. Makes noise, but it's relatively quiet. Part of that is due to the Kubota 3 cylinder that runs at 1800 RPM (the other single cylinder diesel generators are all 3600 RPM). For what it is, my 7KW is very quiet and runs like a top. First things first, I need to find myself a 500mfd or so cap. Where, I don't know. David suggested an HVAC supply. Being that I live rural and have too many other things to do today, I'm not running to San Antonio for one (our nearest big town). I'm pretty sure I have a DRA3. I'll take some more pictures when I take the tarp off that's covering it and email you directly. I can tell you that it has 2 pig type evaps. The DR2 in this post only has 1, and wasn't as much of a PITA to lift up with another person. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen CKs with the serial starting in 4, 5 and 6. I actually have one of each. |
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Post by turbokinetic on Nov 21, 2018 15:48:22 GMT
It's only rated for 3000 watts; not sure what the peak is. I do also have a bigger generator I can use, that's rated for 7KW, and if need be, a PTO generator (more of a PITA to hook up) that's good for 25KW, and also provides 480V. Paul, the 25KW would be ideal; as long as it does also have a 240V tap. I believe 480 would be a bit extreme to try before all other options have been exhausted. You're never going to hear it run with a generator running Paul. This is a good point, but it does also depend on how much cable he has LOL!
I would try it, with capacitor at 120V, and then if not successful; again with capacitor at 240V....
We can hope the compressor is stuck from longtime sitting and not because it has suffered some mechanical failure. The only way to know, without opening it, is to start gentle and work up to stronger and stronger method to get it going. You've done the right thing putting the heater on and letting it warm up first, and then trying starting with 120V like normal. So, if you find it can't run, move on to the next step - capacitor. Continuing with 120V over and over probably will make it worse if it does anything. If it's going to start, it will happen almost immediately.
Travis has a good point about attempting reversal of the motor. The annie has a switch which automates reversal of the motor. You can do this manually, as long as you have a capacitor in the circuit. If you insert the capacitor into the motor's RUN circuit and connect direct power to the START circuit, it will reverse the motor. If you switch this back and forth a few times, it can help to break the motor free.
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Post by Travis on Nov 21, 2018 17:05:56 GMT
I had to rock mine 4 or 5 times.
Paul,
CK's were introduced in 34 or 35. I personally don't fixate on their birth year. All these things are old, being off by a year or two isn't an issue. I only commented because they weren't making DR2's with type C controls and pig evaps in 33. I can see 1930 possibly.
Take a picture of your data plate on the DR3 sometime. It could have an odd number because of the rebuild. No matter, it's still a DR3.
Let me clarify, I get specific on the forum because we're creating reference material, whether we view it as such or not. If I see an uptick in 1933 DR's, I will know who to blame.
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It sounds does sound like they are probably OK, but do share
