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Post by icebox on Jun 10, 2018 20:18:24 GMT
That evaporator looks so industrial - love it. I think there were some fancy designs in the low side float to return the oil, including a hollow float where the oil is supposed to over-flow in to the middle, and the suction line sucks it out. And wicks in other designs - don't know how well any of them worked in practise, someone here will know what this one has. Thanks for posting!
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 10, 2018 20:24:39 GMT
That evaporator looks so industrial - love it. I think there were some fancy designs in the low side float to return the oil, including a hollow float where the oil is supposed to over-flow in to the middle, and the suction line sucks it out. And wicks in other designs - don't know how well any of them worked in practise, someone here will know what this one has. Thanks for posting! Neat idea about the wicking of oil in that design! I'll take the float assembly out and study it carefully during the repairs. Thankfully it is a bolt-in part.
I also think that the evaporator design is very industrial looking with the finned tubes and oversize round header. Definitely not like what we have today!
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Post by jake on Jun 10, 2018 21:30:06 GMT
WOW!! Great pictures and video!! Thanks for posting them!! The evapevaporator looks to be in excellent condition!! No rust or corrosion!! Looks untouched from when it was new! The wooden cabinet and everything else looks great too!! The door doesn't even squeak! That fridge was obviously well taken care of! I wonder why the compressor and condenser unit was removed? Maybe it broke down and someone planned on replacing it? Or maybe it got sent out to be repaired and the repairman couldn't fix it so the owner never bothered to pick it back up? I like your answers to the "How old is it" and "Does it work" questions! I'll have to remember that, lol! Here's another page from the '31 book describing how to use the ice cube trays. Looks like the two you have are original. Including the rubber one. But I agree, there's probably a third, metal one, that should be in the evaporator compartment as well. The metal ones had removable inserts so you can use them for making ice cubes with the insert installed. Or frozen desserts and ice cream with the insert removed.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 10, 2018 21:45:37 GMT
WOW!! Great pictures and video!! Thanks for posting them!! The evapevaporator looks to be in excellent condition!! No rust or corrosion!! Looks untouched from when it was new! The wooden cabinet and everything else looks great too!! The door doesn't even squeak! That fridge was obviously well taken care of! I wonder why the compressor and condenser unit was removed? Maybe it broke down and someone planned on replacing it? Or maybe it got sent out to be repaired and the repairman couldn't fix it so the owner never bothered to pick it back up? I like your answers to the "How old is it" and "Does it work" questions! I'll have to remember that, lol! Here's another page from the '31 book describing how to use the ice cube trays. Looks like the two you have are original. Including the rubber one. But I agree, there's probably a third, metal one, that should be in the evaporator compartment as well. The metal ones had removable inserts so you can use them for making ice cubes with the insert installed. Or frozen desserts and ice cream with the insert removed. Jake, There are quite a few possibilities with the missing parts. I didn't ask where or how the previous owner got it (Forgot! Sorry!) There were quite a few other antiques around, so I surmise her family has been in the antiques trade for a long time. Many times people will sell something like this as an artifact with no idea that folks like us exist who would actually make it work again. The compressor is a hidden part that to them, makes no difference in the value of the unit because you can't see it. It could be that they traded for the fridge from another dealer, who removed the "cool looking" compressor skid and sold it separately for a quick buck. Those smaller items like that move faster at antique malls because people will impulse buy and that can go in the car trunk. The fridge cabinet would be hard to sell.
Someone could have found the fridge abandoned, and taken the compressor skid out, to make an air pump out of it. Many of them met that fate. Kids, you know. There was a time in my life I might have done that.
Or like you say; the fridge could have broken down "back in the day" and the serviceman took the skid to a shop, and eventually determined it was not feasible to fix it. That's pretty plausible actually. It would explain the low amount of wear on the door hardware as well, if it were saved as a storage cabinet on only from an early day in its life.
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Post by coldspaces on Jun 11, 2018 2:16:47 GMT
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 11, 2018 17:38:46 GMT
Here is some info from my 35 service book. They do not seem to cover Frigidaire directly. Must have been not Frigidaire's wish to be in it....... I bought some Frigidaire info on the Bay once. turned out to be all on commercial units.
Thank you for posting this for us! It seems that both the designs shown would need to have a specific refrigerant liquid density, as well as an immiscible refrigerant/oil combination. It seems that both of them depend on the oil floating on top of the refrigerant and either skimming into the hollow bucket float; or for the solid float the oil layer would need to reach the small hole shown in the vapor outlet fitting.
Since the densities of the modern refrigerants are much more than SO2, some careful considerations may have to be made here.
Will be interested to take apart the float and see how this one is made.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 12, 2018 0:39:46 GMT
Got a couple pictures today, just a small update.
I took the evaporator assembly out of the fridge. I want to have it at home so I can refurbish it and have the opportunity to determine what other parts might be needed.
Just to clarify something, I found this fridge while on a remote work assignment. I have no way to transport it home because I am in a car without a trailer hitch. The fridge is in storage near this work assignment. While I can take small parts of it home for check out, the cabinet will have to wait until I come back to this area with a trailer and a more capable towing vehicle.
There is corrosion in the liquid line to the float needle inlet. This is not good news, but is expected. On the positive side, the smell was one of clean oil when I opened the lines.
Even 87 years ago, people cared about not hurting each other. There was a nicely embossed warning tag about the SO2 under pressure. Lawsuits weren't a thing back in these days. The only reason for this is because the people making decisions for the company really did care that folks didn't get hurt.
So that's it for now!
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Post by Travis on Jun 12, 2018 1:50:29 GMT
I might have an extra copy of the service manual that covers this model.
Be advised that the cause for failure is the compressor shaft seal. There's a reason that hermetic units are better. These are still very pretty.
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 12, 2018 2:04:15 GMT
I might have an extra copy of the service manual that covers this model. Be advised that the cause for failure is the compressor shaft seal. There's a reason that hermetic units are better. These are still very pretty.
There is no doubt hermetic are better! Look at the Meter-Misers that are 60 years old with original charge. This one fascinates me because there are so few of them left and so few of them documented online. I'm prepared to accept that it will take more maintenance; just to have a working example.
But, I have to say..... my GM cars have A/C with belt driven compressors. They all keep me nice and cool in the hottest of weather. These systems have a very small charge of 20 ounces of R152A yet manage to move around three tons of refrigeration capacity. These compressors have a highly evolved shaft seal design that's a hybrid between the hard surfaces of a "mechanical seal" like the old Frigidaire compressors have; and the rubber "lip type" oil seals we see for engine oil retention. Several of the cars A/C systems have held this miniscule charge for 5 years. They have evolved the seal designs over the years. I hope to be able to adapt this design to the old compressor. If so, I'll be sure to show exacty how it was done.
Would love to see a service manual for the old Frigidaires, as well!
I'm really looking forward to visiting and getting the Frigidaire compressor skid from you! Sincerely, David
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Post by coldspaces on Jun 12, 2018 4:24:08 GMT
I wonder what the HP was of the original belt drive? I just saved a Frigidaire rotary that may be to much HP. Your welcome to it if you want to adapt in a hermetic some way. I will go see if I can determine the HP of it.
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Post by birkie on Jun 12, 2018 11:54:02 GMT
Here is some info from my 35 service book. They do not seem to cover Frigidaire directly. Must have been not Frigidaire's wish to be in it....... I bought some Frigidaire info on the Bay once. turned out to be all on commercial units.
Thank you for posting this for us! It seems that both the designs shown would need to have a specific refrigerant liquid density, as well as an immiscible refrigerant/oil combination. It seems that both of them depend on the oil floating on top of the refrigerant and either skimming into the hollow bucket float; or for the solid float the oil layer would need to reach the small hole shown in the vapor outlet fitting.
Since the densities of the modern refrigerants are much more than SO2, some careful considerations may have to be made here.
Will be interested to take apart the float and see how this one is made.
Very nice - you're working your way back through time. I'm guessing this was one of the last SO2 Frigidares? As far as the liquid density and miscibility, we found R124 to be freakishly close in some respects R124 is miscible in mineral oil at temperatures above 114F, immiscible below that SO2 is immissible at evaporator temps, and somewhat miscible at condenser temps. Liquid Densities at 10F: Refrigerant | Density (kg/m3) | Comparison to SO2 | R124 | 1474.3 | + 0.5% | SO2 | 1467.3 |
| R134a | 1334.1 | - 9 % | R152a | 986.1 | - 33 % |
Gas densities at 10F: Refrigerant | Density (kg/m3) | Comparison to SO2 | R134a | 9.23 | + 332 % | R124 | 6.59 | + 237 % | R152a | 5.39 | + 194 % | SO2 | 2.78 |
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Post by ckfan on Jun 12, 2018 17:01:45 GMT
So from that data graciously provided by Birkie, it seems like even in this odd situation of a belt driven low side float that 124 could be a drop in replacement! I too was wondering how the oil return would work. Good to know that the density is almost the same and that it won’t mix at the low temps seen in the evaporator. It should just return to the compressor as intended!
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Post by turbokinetic on Jun 13, 2018 0:31:25 GMT
Thank you all for the continued feedback on this fridge! Sorry about the delayed replies but work has gotten very busy for me. So from that data graciously provided by Birkie, it seems like even in this odd situation of a belt driven low side float that 124 could be a drop in replacement! I too was wondering how the oil return would work. Good to know that the density is almost the same and that it won’t mix at the low temps seen in the evaporator. It should just return to the compressor as intended! Yes, that info is very much appreciated! I've searched online for R124 but can't seem to find any for sale. Honestly I haven't had a lot of time to search. It seems (if I interpreted it correctly) that R124 has been phased out for environmental reasons. I'm kind of more interested in making adjustments to the float system so that it works properly with an easier to obtain refrigerant. I realize that R13A is also going to be phased out, however it seems that the automotive community is lobbying for this to be delayed; or not happen at all for the retail automotive market. R152A works extremely well in Andrew's CK monitor top, but that system doesn't have to deal with a low side float and 33% less liquid density. I think that would be too far off for the float to work correctly even with modifications. I wonder what the HP was of the original belt drive? I just saved a Frigidaire rotary that may be to much HP. Your welcome to it if you want to adapt in a hermetic some way. I will go see if I can determine the HP of it. I was looking at YouTube videos of older belt drive Frigidaire units. There aren't many videos! I think one guy stated his had a 1/4 HP motor. It was a larger, double-door model so it would make sense it might have a larger cooling unit.
Thank you for posting this for us! It seems that both the designs shown would need to have a specific refrigerant liquid density, as well as an immiscible refrigerant/oil combination. It seems that both of them depend on the oil floating on top of the refrigerant and either skimming into the hollow bucket float; or for the solid float the oil layer would need to reach the small hole shown in the vapor outlet fitting.
Since the densities of the modern refrigerants are much more than SO2, some careful considerations may have to be made here.
Will be interested to take apart the float and see how this one is made.
Very nice - you're working your way back through time. I'm guessing this was one of the last SO2 Frigidares? As far as the liquid density and miscibility, we found R124 to be freakishly close in some respects R124 is miscible in mineral oil at temperatures above 114F, immiscible below that SO2 is immissible at evaporator temps, and somewhat miscible at condenser temps. Liquid Densities at 10F: Refrigerant | Density (kg/m3) | Comparison to SO2 | R124 | 1474.3 | + 0.5% | SO2 | 1467.3 |
| R134a | 1334.1 | - 9 % | R152a | 986.1 | - 33 % |
Gas densities at 10F: Refrigerant | Density (kg/m3) | Comparison to SO2 | R134a | 9.23 | + 332 % | R124 | 6.59 | + 237 % | R152a | 5.39 | + 194 % | SO2 | 2.78 |
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Thanks again for posting the density charts. This info is very helpful! I wish I could obtain R124 easily; however I fear it may be cost prohibitive. I do have a refrigerant license, so that should not be an obstacle for obtaining it. It's just that there don't seem to be any online sellers. I'm offshore at the moment, but when this assignment ends, I will go to a local shop and see if they have or can order it. Second choice would be R134A, which has the side benefit of being completely immiscible in mineral oil.
Sincerely, David
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Post by birkie on Jun 13, 2018 2:44:54 GMT
Thanks again for posting the density charts. This info is very helpful! I wish I could obtain R124 easily; however I fear it may be cost prohibitive. I do have a refrigerant license, so that should not be an obstacle for obtaining it. It's just that there don't seem to be any online sellers. I'm offshore at the moment, but when this assignment ends, I will go to a local shop and see if they have or can order it. Second choice would be R134A, which has the side benefit of being completely immiscible in mineral oil. A local HVAC distributor will have it, though they may not know it! Until I walked in the door in January, ours hadn't sold any since 2008 and had a pallet and a half in stock. It was just over $300 for 30 lbs. I don't think it'll be banned until 2030 (there are specialist uses for it, some medical). My wife and I have enough DR machines that 30 lbs isn't quite enough, so it was a no brainer for us. If you can get it working on R134a, that sounds ideal to your situation. Otherwise, R124 would definitely work, but you'd almost be compelled to find enough of those things to fill your barn
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Post by coldspaces on Jun 13, 2018 3:26:39 GMT
I couldn't find the HP of the hermetic, model is not listed in my tech manuals that I saw. It is rated for 4 amps full load and much taller than the ones form the 30's. A trip to Travis's for a belt drive is a much better choice though.
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