pcc
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Post by pcc on Mar 13, 2017 5:45:13 GMT
I appreciate all the help I've had from this forum, and our CA-2 is working splendidly after a NGS purge (perhaps the first it ever had - that screw was TIGHT; had to use a wrench cockeyed on the Bristol key to get extra leverage). My question is whether the system should be ever topped off. It was running a bit noisily and I thought it was NGS, so I filled the valve with oil before opening, put the electric defroster in to keep things running, waited a bit, then opened valve lightly. No bubbles but oil went right in so I hurriedly closed the valve. On the whole, the compressor rather rattles in the morning when the kitchen is a bit cold (we're in a bitter cold spell right now), and as we turn up the heat and the kitchen warms it will rattle a bit at first then settle down to quiet after a minute or two per cycle. Otherwise it's running textbook. Any thoughts on the regrigerant "top off" question? - will it silence the initial rattle, should I approach this differently, at just relax and ne happy, doing the recommended maintenance of course?
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Post by coldspaces on Mar 13, 2017 13:12:32 GMT
Sounds like your oil heater may be bad unless you have already confirmed its good. With the control turned to off you should be able to measure about 1000 ohms across the prongs of the plug. If there is no continuity with the control off the heater is bad.
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Post by ckfan on Mar 13, 2017 15:14:16 GMT
Yes, what coldspaces said. It sounds like your oil heater may be bad. If you turn the control off and get a bad ohm reading across the power plug you will need to get a new oil heater. We can help you source one. When the unit gets cold it especially needs a heater since it will make it rattle more. What you are hearing is liquid refrigerant rapidly boiling off when it comes into the compressor. Not good to do that long term. The heater keeps the oil just warm enough so that liquid refrigerant can't settle in it. You will find a rubber plug at the back of the "neck" of the unit. If you carefully pry that out you will see wires that go into a hole in the base of the compressor. This is where the heater lives. If you have to mess with the wiring be VERY CAREFUL. The old wiring can be very brittle and the insulation might come off. If it is in poor shape you will have to replace it unfortunately. Good luck and let us know what you find!
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Post by cablehack on Mar 13, 2017 22:58:45 GMT
If you don't have an ohm-meter, a plug in power meter can also be used for checking the heater. With the control switch "off", there should be a constant draw of around 12 to 15W. I would recommend using a power meter all the time anyway, because the power draw gives a very good indication of running conditions. For example, an increase in power along with rattling indicates excess NCG. To answer the question about adding methyl formate, this should never be required unless the system has been incorrectly purged of non condensable gases. The amount of methyl formate inside is fairly critical if optimum performance is to be obtained, so should not be altered unless there's a specific reason to do so. It sounds like the system was not warm enough when you attempted to purge the NCG's. Wait for the top of the condenser to feel warm before testing whether the pressure is positive or negative. If yours is an original CA that's never been worked on before, there's a good chance it will need a purge, regardless of the heater situation. But wait until the heater is confirmed to be OK, and the compressor oil has had time to warm before commencing the purge procedure. My experience has been that when everything is as it should be, rattling only occurs for a few seconds at the start, if the room temperature has dropped noticeably within the past day or two. Once the room has stabilised at its cold temperature, there is no further rattling. My kitchen temperature is generally around 9C to 15C throughout winter.
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pcc
New Member
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Post by pcc on Mar 14, 2017 4:03:26 GMT
OK - I may as well get a new oil heater and do things properly. This unit is just about pristine, and I want to keep it that way; as the oil heaters go bad, I should put one in against any mishaps that way. Where may I obtain one? Many thanks for this.
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Post by ckfan on Mar 14, 2017 14:19:37 GMT
OK - I may as well get a new oil heater and do things properly. This unit is just about pristine, and I want to keep it that way; as the oil heaters go bad, I should put one in against any mishaps that way. Where may I obtain one? Many thanks for this. I understand the want to get a new heater just in case. However, getting them is tricky because you have to specify exactly what you need from a manufacturer. It's not that bad but before going to that trouble I would test the one you have first. It may still be good. If it is, you will have to start looking for other problems. I have seen several machines with an original working heater. They are in the minority however.
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pcc
New Member
Posts: 6
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Post by pcc on Mar 14, 2017 16:39:28 GMT
IF the oil heater is bad, can it be repaired? I have a friend in Syracuse who is an electric and electronic wizard. The process of figuring out what to specify to a manufacturer for a new one might be beyond my expertise so I may have to call upon him anyway. I will get the power meter anyway just to check things out consistently (I haven't an ohm meter).
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Post by ckfan on Mar 14, 2017 16:49:36 GMT
I can give you the exact specs that you will need to put into their ordering form. It isn't that big of a deal. The old heaters can't be repaired. Or at least I've never heard of anyone being able to repair them. They are sealed in a porcelain like coating. I would check it out with a power meter. Kill A Watt makes very good meters that can even predict how much it costs to run an appliance on a monthly or yearly basis.
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Post by cablehack on Mar 14, 2017 22:37:37 GMT
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Post by ckfan on Mar 15, 2017 1:08:12 GMT
You raise a good point. A person could quite easily make a heater for a lot cheaper. It just won't look much like the original. Do you have any issues or suggestions that you've learnt from making your own?
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Post by cablehack on Mar 15, 2017 3:12:20 GMT
You raise a good point. A person could quite easily make a heater for a lot cheaper. It just won't look much like the original. Do you have any issues or suggestions that you've learnt from making your own? No problems at all with it; it all went together easily and fitted inside the compressor well without any problem, although I did grind the corners off the resistors so they fitted more easily. I'd say the application of thermal paste is more important here because of the square section. I can't fault the performance. True, it's not authentic, but it's out of sight and out of mind, and very, very, inexpensive to replace if I ever have to.
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Post by ckfan on Mar 15, 2017 14:19:08 GMT
You raise a good point. A person could quite easily make a heater for a lot cheaper. It just won't look much like the original. Do you have any issues or suggestions that you've learnt from making your own? No problems at all with it; it all went together easily and fitted inside the compressor well without any problem, although I did grind the corners off the resistors so they fitted more easily. I'd say the application of thermal paste is more important here because of the square section. I can't fault the performance. True, it's not authentic, but it's out of sight and out of mind, and very, very, inexpensive to replace if I ever have to. I may have to try this in the future. Sounds like a win win.
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pcc
New Member
Posts: 6
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Post by pcc on Mar 15, 2017 15:42:53 GMT
I can give you the exact specs that you will need to put into their ordering form. It isn't that big of a deal. The old heaters can't be repaired. Or at least I've never heard of anyone being able to repair them. They are sealed in a porcelain like coating. I would check it out with a power meter. Kill A Watt makes very good meters that can even predict how much it costs to run an appliance on a monthly or yearly basis. I've ordered a Kill A Watt meter to check the power draw, but if you could give me the specs to order a new heater I'd be grateful; I may go ahead and order one. I have to be out of town for 2 days and when I come back I'll check what's going on and figure out what to do from there. (I may carefully purge it one more time when I get back...) Many thanks for your help! This is our CA-2-B16 in our rather cluttered kitchen. Next to it is our 1926 Kitchen-Aid mixer which was a demonstrator model in the Niagara Mohawk Electric Co's showroom in Buffalo, NY, which I found (with all its attachments) in a very small and dowdy antique store in Clarendon.
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Post by ckfan on Mar 15, 2017 16:53:50 GMT
I will get those specs to you later when I get a chance. I have to say that I really like your kitchen. Very cool mixer and your CA is stunning. Love it. This little beauty needs to be made right again. I hope we can help you do that.
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Post by cablehack on Mar 15, 2017 22:34:27 GMT
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